The Creator and His Creation
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23-11-2016, 08:34 AM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2016 08:41 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(23-11-2016 08:16 AM)theBorg Wrote:  So, my English was better somehow. Thank you. Do not mix the Creator and Creation. The infinite Creation can not be measured. We are not ready to talk about the Creator, because we are in atheistic forum. So, one can try to talk about the Creation.

We are not ready to talk about the Creator, but we can talk about the Creation?

So why don't you shut the fuck up?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-11-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(23-11-2016 08:16 AM)theBorg Wrote:  So, my English was better somehow. Thank you. Do not mix the Creator and Creation. The infinite Creation can not be measured. We are not ready to talk about the Creator, because we are in atheistic forum. So, one can try to talk about the Creation.

Well, I'm ready to talk about the Creator, and apparently a bunch of other people are ready to talk about the Creator, at least in terms of considering a hypothetical. The only part of "we" that doesn't appear to be ready is you.

And that's fine. Once you ARE ready, feel free to come back to this subject.

But making posts talking about a Creator and then not being ready to talk about a Creator is incoherent. You've certainly shown plenty of readiness to talk about a Creator elsewhere, even in this thread.

I think you just don't like being shown that your beliefs and arguments (if they can even be considered to rise to the level of arguments) are self-contradictory, and that you're dishonest enough to try to make that about us rather than about you.
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23-11-2016, 09:29 AM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(23-11-2016 08:16 AM)theBorg Wrote:  So, my English was better somehow. Thank you. Do not mix the Creator and Creation. The infinite Creation can not be measured. We are not ready to talk about the Creator, because we are in atheistic forum. So, one can try to talk about the Creation.

You aren't going to prove the creation to anyone unless you can prove to them the Creator first.
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25-11-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(23-11-2016 08:16 AM)theBorg Wrote:  So, my English was better somehow. Thank you. Do not mix the Creator and Creation. The infinite Creation can not be measured. We are not ready to talk about the Creator, because we are in atheistic forum. So, one can try to talk about the Creation.

You're assuming already that it's a "creation" from the start, that implies a creator or an intelligent designer or whatever you want to call it so it's shoving us into a corner.

All that exists can be called a chance accident or simply natural processes left to burn and mix together for a few billion years and now here we are, self aware, conscious and intelligent life grasping for meaning in the endless void.

Even if we agree that is the case we can't really know for sure so it doesn't make sense to say "Something created all of this, for sure, there is no doubt!" Even if they did, it's certainly not perfect and there are many deeply flawed aspects of nature all around us so this alleged creator either didn't care, is flawed itself or doesn't exist, so right back to still being an atheist.

Even if this being did exist they aren't worth worshiping or bowing a knee to, it's still a flawed wizard from another dimension or magic space dust going around "creating" stuff and then abandoning it. Not really much a God and not capable of affecting our lives or shepherding our souls to afterlives or listening to our thoughts, etc. so yeah you can try to prove a creator all day long but even if you did, still no proof it "loves" us or judges us or is even capable of emotions or thoughts.

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25-11-2016, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2016 08:42 PM by Rahn127.)
RE: The Creator and His Creation
Which comes first ?

Nature
Minerals
Biological life
Plants, trees
Intelligent life (builder)
Raw materials for building
Builder builds a building

Nature
Minerals
Biological life
Plants, berries
Intelligent life (painter)
Raw materials to make canvas & paints
Painter paints a painting

Some undefined entity pops into existence from nothing. (creator god)
Spontaneous intelligence occurs
Amount of knowledge known = zero (nothing exists)
Spontaneous power occurs
Amount of power = undefined value for undefined entity
Power= work/time = 0/0
No work / no time
Spontaneous universe occurs
Undefined entity becomes scared and spontaneously ceases to exist.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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26-11-2016, 01:22 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(20-11-2016 06:15 AM)theBorg Wrote:  We do not decide what is right, the True God decides.
The Building has builder, the Creation has Creator.

Elements of reality were: water, fire, earth. They had properties, but had unknown nature.
Now elements are elementary particles. They also have properties, but they have unknown nature.

The Principle of In-distinguish-ability of the particles is proven experimentally, and therefore, the deformations within an elementary particle do propagate with infinite velocity. Otherwise the deformations will make the particles distinguishable, which is not possible. But the Infinite property is making the elementar particles unphysical.

Do you follow?

What to do? We can only confirm that the elementary particles are elements of reality. They must be "taken as a given".

Big Grin

Rolleyes

Define god

Define true god

Define reality

Define faith

Define delusion

1) An un-evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, mythology, folklore and literature
2) It is impossible for any presupposed un-evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity
3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore, myth and literature having to do with all gods

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is Man.

Do you follow?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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26-11-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(26-11-2016 01:22 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(20-11-2016 06:15 AM)theBorg Wrote:  We do not decide what is right, the True God decides.
The Building has builder, the Creation has Creator.

Elements of reality were: water, fire, earth. They had properties, but had unknown nature.
Now elements are elementary particles. They also have properties, but they have unknown nature.

The Principle of In-distinguish-ability of the particles is proven experimentally, and therefore, the deformations within an elementary particle do propagate with infinite velocity. Otherwise the deformations will make the particles distinguishable, which is not possible. But the Infinite property is making the elementar particles unphysical.

Do you follow?

What to do? We can only confirm that the elementary particles are elements of reality. They must be "taken as a given".

Big Grin

Rolleyes

Define god

Define true god

Define reality

Define faith

Define delusion

1) An un-evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, mythology, folklore and literature
2) It is impossible for any presupposed un-evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity
3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore, myth and literature having to do with all gods

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is Man.

Do you follow?

He lives! GWG is alive!

Welcome back brother, you have been missed.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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26-11-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(26-11-2016 01:22 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(20-11-2016 06:15 AM)theBorg Wrote:  We do not decide what is right, the True God decides.
The Building has builder, the Creation has Creator.

Elements of reality were: water, fire, earth. They had properties, but had unknown nature.
Now elements are elementary particles. They also have properties, but they have unknown nature.

The Principle of In-distinguish-ability of the particles is proven experimentally, and therefore, the deformations within an elementary particle do propagate with infinite velocity. Otherwise the deformations will make the particles distinguishable, which is not possible. But the Infinite property is making the elementar particles unphysical.

Do you follow?

What to do? We can only confirm that the elementary particles are elements of reality. They must be "taken as a given".

Big Grin

Rolleyes

Define god

Define true god

Define reality

Define faith

Define delusion

1) An un-evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, mythology, folklore and literature
2) It is impossible for any presupposed un-evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity
3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore, myth and literature having to do with all gods

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is Man.

Do you follow?

You do realize he's not going to do any of that, right? Borg is incapable of defining jack shit. He just spouts the bullshit that he was indoctrinated with. Repeatedly.
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27-11-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(26-11-2016 03:36 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(26-11-2016 01:22 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Rolleyes

Define god

Define true god

Define reality

Define faith

Define delusion

1) An un-evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, mythology, folklore and literature
2) It is impossible for any presupposed un-evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity
3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore, myth and literature having to do with all gods

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is Man.

Do you follow?

He lives! GWG is alive!

Welcome back brother, you have been missed.

Not quite yet, just doing a drive by Smile

Been dealing with a family crisis and finishing my second Master's which has been a bit intense. Sorry I have been absent so long, you guys are constantly in my thoughts, and when I complete this master's I will be here daily once again. Smartass

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-11-2016, 05:30 PM
RE: The Creator and His Creation
(26-11-2016 04:09 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(26-11-2016 01:22 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Rolleyes

Define god

Define true god

Define reality

Define faith

Define delusion

1) An un-evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, mythology, folklore and literature
2) It is impossible for any presupposed un-evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity
3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore, myth and literature having to do with all gods

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is Man.

Do you follow?

You do realize he's not going to do any of that, right? Borg is incapable of defining jack shit. He just spouts the bullshit that he was indoctrinated with. Repeatedly.

Of course not, in my experience, the vast majority of the faithful are typically incapable of applying reason, logic or introspective analytical skills to this subject, which is why they have faith. The belief in something without evidence.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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