The Dawkins Scale
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18-08-2015, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2015 09:40 AM by Free.)
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  Re-read the definitions of 6, 5, and 4; then re-read my post.

I'm referring to the actual definitions by Dawkins. According to Dawkins anything less than a 100% certain but more than 50% corresponds to a belief.

Agreed. Why? because anything less than 100% acknowledges a possibility that God could exist.

But evidence must be supplied to support that possibility, otherwise it an assertion with no evidence, and therefore dismissed.

I can honestly claim to be 100% certain God does not exist because of a complete and total lack of evidence to support God's existence, or even his possible existence.

And that is being honest about it.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-08-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  What I would be curious to here, is which of the numbers between 4-7, would correspond to a belief God doesn't exist, rather than merely lacking a belief.

As per Dawkins Definitions:

4- Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'

5- Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical.'

6- Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not
there.'

7- Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'

If you're own number correspond to a 6, or low 7, then it would appear you don't merely lack a belief in God, but believe God doesn't exist.

The fact claim that there is no God is defined as 7 on the Dawkins scale. Anything less is not making that claim.

I disagree. Even a 7 is making no claim except about their own belief. Likewise for the theist. Until an atheist or theist makes an argument that takes a persuasive form there is no claim.

Once a claim is actually made, that's when the question of a burden of proof comes into play.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-08-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
If you will:
Name your god,
Define your god.

I will call:

[Image: 10-Most-Amazing-Neon-Letter-Lights-7.jpg]

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18-08-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
7

Until a theist brings proof of their god claim, I remain confident that there is no god. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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18-08-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
The Biblical god........8 100% sure no such animal exists.

A nebulous, cosmic god.....6.9

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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18-08-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:39 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  The fact claim that there is no God is defined as 7 on the Dawkins scale. Anything less is not making that claim.

I disagree. Even a 7 is making no claim except about their own belief. Likewise for the theist. Until an atheist or theist makes an argument that takes a persuasive form there is no claim.

Once a claim is actually made, that's when the question of a burden of proof comes into play.

Compare:

1. God does not exist.

Evidence?

Evidence of Absence.

2. God does exist.

Evidence?

None.

I win the internet.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-08-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:39 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  The fact claim that there is no God is defined as 7 on the Dawkins scale. Anything less is not making that claim.

I disagree. Even a 7 is making no claim except about their own belief. Likewise for the theist. Until an atheist or theist makes an argument that takes a persuasive form there is no claim.

Once a claim is actually made, that's when the question of a burden of proof comes into play.

I agree, if what we mean by claim, is an argument intended to convince someone else.

But what I would say is.

is this:

4, is a mere lack of belief that God exist

5, 6, are both a belief that God does not exist

While 7, is knowing God doesn't not exist.

While none of these correspond to claims, some do correspond to beliefs.
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18-08-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:28 AM)Free Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:15 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Yup. this.

The problem I run into with this scale is that when I tell a devout theist that I am a 6.999999... because I don't claim absolute knowledge, they immediately jump on it like it's an "gotcha" moment. The next thing that comes out of their mouth is usually something like "so you admit God COULD exist!!"

It always reminds me of that scene in Dumb and Dumber where Mary tells him his chances are one in a billion or something and he responds with "So, you're saying there is a chance!"

To me at least, I need evidence to support even the possibility- however remote- that God could possibly exist.

I find it pointless to denote even the most remote possibility when there is no need or reason to do so.

As an atheist, when someone says "But you can't prove God doesn't exist," it is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. That's what theists would say, and that is not what an atheist says, and I find this assertion to be completely dishonest.

If something isn't there, and does not find a shred of evidence for support, the most honest position to hold is that it isn't there. Claiming possibilities without evidence is an intellectually dishonest position to hold.

I am 7.0, and I was born this way.

Big Grin

I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree.

In the same way I can't know for absolute certainty that I'm not just a brain hooked up to a simulation, I can't know for certain that something more powerful than I didn't create all this for his own amusement.

That being said, I find the notion of a deity (and solipsism for that matter) to be utterly ridiculous. Also, one thing I am 100% certain of is that if there is a deity, it sure as fuck isn't Yahweh. That tale is demonstrably nonsense.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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18-08-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  7

Until a theist brings proof of their god claim, I remain confident that there is no god. Drinking Beverage

SO you know that God doesn't exist?
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18-08-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: The Dawkins Scale
(18-08-2015 09:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 09:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  7

Until a theist brings proof of their god claim, I remain confident that there is no god. Drinking Beverage

SO you know that God doesn't exist?

Can you read?

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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