The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
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26-02-2017, 01:02 AM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2017 01:25 AM by Kaneda.)
The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
I don't think this warrants much explaining. To anyone who hasn't been following the DNC chair race these past few weeks, it has basically been a proxy battle fought between Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters via front runners Keith Ellison and Tom Perez, respectively...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58b117...480e0841d1

The internet has been in a fury since Perez won the spot with 235 DNC votes to Ellison's 200. I've mostly been following public opinion on the matter through r/politics and r/Political_Revolution, and public opinion could not be more divided.

Bernieceats at r/Political_Revolution overwhelmingly claim it's time to start a new party because the DNC is hopelessly corrupt/will never give progressives anything/will not stop licking corporate boots, and therefore must be allowed to die. They're starting to denigrate anyone who's too chicken to start a new party to make real change in 2018/2020.

Meanwhile, moderates/center-leftists at r/politics, still shell-shocked by what the Republicans in Congress are doing, insist on sticking with Perez and the Democrats. More than half in r/politics are argue it's the only way to maintain a bulwark against the tyranny of Trump and Congress, imperfect and compromised as the DNC might be. They will denigrate progressives who insist on forming a third party, claiming it will ultimately be counterproductive and cement the Republican majority for the foreseeable future, insuring they continue to do damage to everything that's good in this world.

Now I'm not in interested in lamenting how messsd up the FPTP system in this country is, or getting bogged down by complaints about how screwed we are because of Republicunts/Millenials/Wall Street, etc. I get it; I've heard the spiel a thousand times. What I want to resolve in this thread, for the sake of my own sanity, is whether I should go forward in my own words and actions with the "Support the Democrats" strategy, or the "Start a New Party" strategy. I expect a lot of back-and-frothing from posters with conflicting opinions, but seeing as this is a logical community, I'm confident a consensus will win out.

If after a time the conversation slows down and I still find myself on the fault line of a fracturing party, I will bump it up and keep it moving. This uncertainty over where to go from here is driving me crazy, and homing into some indisputable wisdom from grounded minds in this forum would do me - and other lurkers adrift in this mess - a world of good.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." -Julius Caesar
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26-02-2017, 02:09 AM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
I'm a progressive, and ideally would like to be able to make progress on our own; but traditionally that has never been the case. The largest and most progressive reforms have always come through compromise. While my heart is with the farther left progressives, my mind is with the centrists. They're going to be more likely to get cross aisle support as Trump's spiraling incompetence eventually drives away defectors.

But that's all under the assumption that there are still Republicans who can potentially cross party lines for the sake of the nation. If you don't think that's at all possible, then throw in with the far right, and let's get with burning things down to their foundations.

The epitaph on the headstone of the United States will read "At Least The Other Side Lost Too".

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26-02-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
The problem isn't "them or us" --- it's the assumption that there IS a "them or us".

It's a rare person who actually fits the profile of a "dyed in the wool" ( D ) or ( R ).

Sadly - the rest who affiliate with either party will vote for any sack of shit that the party puts forth as their "best".

If voters took a hard long look at each candidate as a person - and not as some political solution with the right label -IGNORING party affiliation-- and voted accordingly -- THEN we might have a truly representational government.

What we have now is a reality show where the least objectionable contestant wins.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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26-02-2017, 03:06 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
Believe me, I would like to see unrequited party loyalty go away as much as the next guy, but until someone develops an app that can streamline electoral consensus at both a state and national level, partisan politics are here to stay.

I'm leaning toward supporting the democratic party, and I think that's where most reasonable people's heads are right now. But there's still a possibility that the left may fracture in the next few years, and we might still have to decide whether it's worth it to stay vigilant to keep a strong coalition together; The best we can hope for on the right is for a minority of conservatives to reach across the isle and a few congressional seats to be flipped.

Have either of you had any success reaching across the isle to conservatives in your own life? Most of the republican voters I've met are thick as bricks, and I just don't know how to get though to people so set in their ways. The spiraling incompetence of Trump and the the GOP congress is on full display, and yet his numbers remain stubbornly high and congressman keep getting put back in. I don't know to get around this.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." -Julius Caesar
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26-02-2017, 06:01 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
In working multi party systems, the parties form alliances. If we don't learn to do this asap, Trump will be totalitarian ruler until his kids take over.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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26-02-2017, 09:34 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
If I didn't have children I'd say let the motherfucker burn.

As it is I'd like to see some compromise, but don't hold a lot of hope for the future of America.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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26-02-2017, 09:48 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(26-02-2017 06:32 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The problem isn't "them or us" --- it's the assumption that there IS a "them or us".

It's a rare person who actually fits the profile of a "dyed in the wool" ( D ) or ( R ).

Sadly - the rest who affiliate with either party will vote for any sack of shit that the party puts forth as their "best".

If voters took a hard long look at each candidate as a person - and not as some political solution with the right label -IGNORING party affiliation-- and voted accordingly -- THEN we might have a truly representational government.

What we have now is a reality show where the least objectionable contestant wins.

This, this, this, and it's been that way for decades! Dodgy That said, how does the populace make it better, when shitheads can claim "fake news", essentially unchallenged? People need to wake up and pay attention to what is going on, but so many things distract from that.
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26-02-2017, 10:26 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
I disagree with this thread title. Democrats have a common enemy now. We're on the outside of the tent pissing in but we're all pissing on the same piece of shit.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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26-02-2017, 10:45 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
I guess Keith Ellison is out.
It's only my beloved country - my constitution. There seems to be so few who can protect it, now.
So little reason for me to stick around.

I am disappoint. Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-02-2017, 11:49 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
Not trying to force an opinion here, but this nugget of information is really an eye opener:

-There are 34 states needed for a Constitutional Convention.

-38 states are needed to amend the constitution.

-The GOP controls the legislatures in 33 states.


I'm feeling a bit pragmatic right now.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." -Julius Caesar
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