The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
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27-02-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(26-02-2017 01:02 AM)Kaneda Wrote:  What I want to resolve in this thread, for the sake of my own sanity, is whether I should go forward in my own words and actions with the "Support the Democrats" strategy, or the "Start a New Party" strategy.

In my mind it really comes down to one question. What's more important? Stopping the republicans from implementing their agenda or implementing a progressive one. If the former you should probably support the democrats. If the later then go new party.

Actually if the later you should still support the democrats because a split party doesn't have a chance in hell of regaining control of the federal government. Then fight over a more liberal policy once the conservatives are kicked to the curb.

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27-02-2017, 10:04 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
Absolutely zero chance the Democratic party will split. Period. Fact.
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27-02-2017, 10:26 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
I've not seem any fury or chaos, but I've seen from folks of further liberal thoughts than the DNC that think both the Sanders case and Ellison case is a strong implications of awareness that these are positions and figures that were entirely ignored a year or 2 ago but are prominent and on display as sensible to millions these days.

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28-02-2017, 07:19 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(27-02-2017 09:01 AM)Emma Wrote:  Anyway, I do have a question for you and anyone else who wants to answer- what does it mean to you to be a progressive?

To me, being a progressive goes hand-in-hand with being a metaphysical naturalist. Naturalists see humanity through the lens of the sciences rather than through the filters of any particular religion, culture or country. In other words, progressives embrace such ideas as equality, tolerance, and environmentalism. Even in the United States, we are way behind in incorporating scientific insights into public policies.

Personally, I am most concerned about climate change. That's at the top of my progressive agenda.
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01-03-2017, 05:56 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(28-02-2017 07:19 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Personally, I am most concerned about climate change. That's at the top of my progressive agenda.

Then you should be concerned about Global Cooling, since Millions of people died of famine during the last Mini-Ice Age.

The enemy numbered six hundred - including women and children - and we abolished them utterly, leaving not even a baby alive to cry for its dead mother. This is incomparably the greatest victory that was ever achieved by the Christian soldiers of the United States. -- Mark Twain
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01-03-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
If there was an overwhelming consensus of the scientific community that said cooling was going to be an issue in the next few centuries, then I would be worried about it. But that's not the case, so why bring it up?

Oooooooh, right! Because you're trying to imply that the world simply cycles through natural variances in global temperature (which is true), and that demonstrates that however annoying a climate shift may be, it's not really anthropogenic.

That's a good story, but needs more dragons. It's certainly nothing to do with the actual science.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-03-2017, 05:37 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2017 07:05 PM by Kaneda.)
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
Ladies and Gents, I thought about this for the last couple of weeks and am really convinced global warming is going to become a leading political issue in the near future. The effects of climate change are likely to become so extreme in the near-term that current denials and rationalizations will be silenced by the brute force of drought, rising sea levels, and extreme weather. This silly AGW debate is going to keep get buried when things start to affect people's quality of life, and then we might finally, at long last get some mobilization toward emissions reductions/adaptation.

A Gallup poll from early 2016 claims that about 64% of Americans are worried a great deal or fair amount about Global Warming. Those numbers are going to go up, I guarantee it. Any coalition that comes along with plans for real emissions reductions or supports some implementation of geoengineering is going to get a lot of fervent support.

These are my thoughts, in brief. I'm probably going to get called a 'cuck' for settling on this, but the Democratic Party needs unity, and a lot of down-ballot support, to make real progress on this front. If we split the voting block again and get business-as-usual four years from now it might be time to leave the country.

So, is anyone getting engaged on a personal level? I'm working on getting more vocal and educate those around me as much as I can.

EDIT: @Jay Vogelsong: I really like the definition of progressivism you gave. It's better than any definition I could have come up with Thumbsup.

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11-03-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(11-03-2017 05:37 PM)Kaneda Wrote:  ... the Democratic Party needs unity, and a lot of down-ballot support, to make real progress on this front. If we split the voting block again and get business-as-usual four years from now it might be time to leave the country.

The AGW ship has sailed. Makes no difference if the Dems present a united front on the AGW agenda or not.

The liars, the climate change deniers, the Repubs, the moneyed interests, won.

It's now too late. No matter what we do now, the tipping point is behind us.

A Princeton study has shown that even if the entire human race stops emitting CO2 now, the planet will continue to warm for at least the next 200 years. Source: Even if emissions stop, carbon dioxide could warm Earth for centuries

Best we can do now is to start moving people inland, invest in pharmaceuticals that treat the spread of tropical diseases, work on GMO crops that will grow in drought/flood conditions and prepare for the mass migration of people rushing to move to areas with arable land.

Funny thing, how the right wing whackjobs have been all frothed at the mouth about refugees, and at the same time in denial about climate change, completely oblivious to the fact that the two are connected. If they think the refugee problem is bad now, they ain't seen nothing yet.
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11-03-2017, 10:44 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2017 11:14 PM by Kaneda.)
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
@Heath_Tierney

I remember you giving this point in an earlier thread I posted. I agree with you wholeheartedly: no serious person talking about climate change is talking about reversing it (except maybe in the very long term); that is a well-known fact. The point of taking action now is to find ways to cope with the damage climate change will do - and is already doing - and to contain the most malignant effects.

Nonetheless, any large-scale project to move millions of people inland, invest in pre-emptive pharmaceuticals, and grow enough GMO super-crops is going to need to be backed by tremendous public will and political support. That public will is going to grow with the onset of greater droughts, sea levels and rising temperatures, so the goal of any involved citizen should be to dredge up that political support.

Edit: I'm letting the record show that I believe any humanitarian coalition needs to be built from within the Dem. party, who least claim to give a shit about climate change. Elections still matter even if the goal posts have been moved.

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12-03-2017, 06:19 AM
RE: The Democratic Party has Descended into Civil War
(11-03-2017 09:32 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  The AGW ship has sailed. Makes no difference if the Dems present a united front on the AGW agenda or not.

The liars, the climate change deniers, the Repubs, the moneyed interests, won.

It's now too late. No matter what we do now, the tipping point is behind us.

It's too late for some things. It's not too late for others.

Undecided
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