The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
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04-07-2013, 06:41 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 05:39 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So you lied in several different ways. Bravo !!!!
1. You don't have any friends
2. You're banned from the mall because of that exposure thing.
3. You don't have enough money to buy a coat because you spent it all on booze and WLC t-shirts. You bought them because if you puke on them, no one seems to notice.
4. Lastly - Your mind is so muddled, I have serious doubts you know what season you're in right now, let alone what season is needed for coats.

There is one point of contention there, with the WLC t-shirts. That can't be true because I don't know what they in fact are.
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04-07-2013, 06:44 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 05:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Ah, today's topic of the day is contradictions.

Uh, okay. Though with a specific angle of having already lost the debate. It's more about the error of the atheist.

(04-07-2013 05:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  "Yesterday", it was evolution.

Glad I missed that one.

(04-07-2013 05:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What will it be tomorrow? Biblical atrocities?

Clearly you can't see the forest for the trees.

Are you sure?
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04-07-2013, 06:59 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
If you really, reeeeaally try, you can say that Genesis chapters 1 and 2 don't contradict each other on the creation of (f'r'example) man and woman, or man and animals.

I'm more curious as to why, if man was created in God's image, God then changed his form by removing a rib (and having men cut off the foreskin he gave them, but that's another question).

I'm more curious as to how the creation of the sun and stars is only described after the creation of light.

I'm more curious as to why the creation is mentioned as taking seven days and one day (in either case, beginning before the creation of the cycles that define a day).

But I suppose you can start declaring that the fact that the verses are written in a specific order doesn't really mean they're supposed to have happened in that order. Except how do you know? How do we know the rest of the bible happened in the order it's written in, now that we've established that that isn't necessarily so?

That's not why people are atheists, by the way. The inconsistent (and it is surely inconsistent, if not actually contradictory) creation accounts are but a small kernel of corn on top of the enormous mound of festering shit that is religious doctrine. Take that away and there's still an enormous mound of shit.

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04-07-2013, 07:35 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 01:40 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Which creation accounts?

These, according to the SAB.

There are two different accounts. The first is chronological, like "I went to the mall and bought a coat."

The second one is topical, like "I bought a coat, at the mall." Due to the fact that the order of events are given in two different orders, the atheist skeptic tends to see them as contradictory.
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04-07-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 07:35 PM)The Theist Wrote:  These, according to the SAB.

There are two different accounts. The first is chronological, like "I went to the mall and bought a coat."

The second one is topical, like "I bought a coat, at the mall." Due to the fact that the order of events are given in two different orders, the atheist skeptic tends to see them as contradictory.

Is the first the chronological? Okay, then.

Because then I'm really curious as to how light and days, were around before the sun and stars...

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04-07-2013, 07:43 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 07:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(04-07-2013 07:35 PM)The Theist Wrote:  These, according to the SAB.

There are two different accounts. The first is chronological, like "I went to the mall and bought a coat."

The second one is topical, like "I bought a coat, at the mall." Due to the fact that the order of events are given in two different orders, the atheist skeptic tends to see them as contradictory.

Is the first the chronological? Okay, then.

Because then I'm really curious as to how light and days, were around before the sun and stars...

"It's god! God can do whatever the hell he wants, now shut up!"

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04-07-2013, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2013 08:12 PM by The Theist.)
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 06:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If you really, reeeeaally try, you can say that Genesis chapters 1 and 2 don't contradict each other on the creation of (f'r'example) man and woman, or man and animals.

I'm more curious as to why, if man was created in God's image, God then changed his form by removing a rib (and having men cut off the foreskin he gave them, but that's another question).

Man having been created in God's image involves mankind having his sense of justice, compassion, a reflection of the Creator's quality and personality. Since God is a spirit being, having no genetalia man being created in his image isn't exlusively a physical likeness.

Quote:I'm more curious as to how the creation of the sun and stars is only described after the creation of light.

The heavens, including the luminaries, were complete in Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew term bara (createed) is used at Genesis 1:1, which is in the perfect state indicating completion. At verse 16 the Hebrew term asah (made) is used, which indicates incomplete action, or action in progress. God then made (appointed or establish are more accurate terms) the sun and moon for their original purpose.

Quote:I'm more curious as to why the creation is mentioned as taking seven days and one day (in either case, beginning before the creation of the cycles that define a day).

The Hebrew word yohm, translated day, can signify any period of time from a few hours to an indefinite period of time. For example, Judgment day lasts a thousand years. The term is used in three different ways in the creation account itself. Being the daylight hours (12 hours), being the daylight and night hours (24 hours) just as our day is used, and all 6 days or period as 1 day (144 hours).

Quote:But I suppose you can start declaring that the fact that the verses are written in a specific order doesn't really mean they're supposed to have happened in that order. Except how do you know? How do we know the rest of the bible happened in the order it's written in, now that we've established that that isn't necessarily so?

I don't know what specifically you mean there. Where have 'we' established that? Not that I disagree, because I don't know specifically what you mean.

Quote:That's not why people are atheists, by the way. The inconsistent (and it is surely inconsistent, if not actually contradictory) creation accounts are but a small kernel of corn on top of the enormous mound of festering shit that is religious doctrine. Take that away and there's still an enormous mound of shit.

Hmm. I can see that is your interpretation, but if you and I sat down and attempted to understand - to really understand the alleged mound of shit we could more carefully see that most of the shit is in the interpretation or the religious and formerly religious.
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04-07-2013, 08:15 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 07:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Is the first the chronological? Okay, then.

Because then I'm really curious as to how light and days, were around before the sun and stars...

The heavens and the earth were complete at Genesis 1:1. The sun and stars would have been included in the heavens.
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04-07-2013, 08:31 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 08:04 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Man having been created in God's image involves mankind having his sense of justice, compassion, a reflection of the Creator's quality and personality. Since God is a spirit being, having no genitalia man being created in his image isn't exclusively a physical likeness.

But not his innate knowledge of good and evil? What is justice, without a sense of right and wrong?

(04-07-2013 08:04 PM)The Theist Wrote:  The heavens, including the luminaries, were complete in Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew term bara (created) is used at Genesis 1:1, which is in the perfect state indicating completion. At verse 16 the Hebrew term asah (made) is used, which indicates incomplete action, or action in progress. God then made (appointed or establish are more accurate terms) the sun and moon for their original purpose.

I wasn't aware of aspect in Hebrew grammar - and my quick check just now states plainly that such a distinction is debatable. Regardless - all translations made in the three languages I can read (English, French, and Latin) use the same word in both instances. In verse 3 light is created. In verses 14-16 light sources are made. What possible reason is there to separate those verses? Does that not introduce the possibility of ambiguity or misinterpretation?

(04-07-2013 08:04 PM)The Theist Wrote:  The Hebrew word yohm, translated day, can signify any period of time from a few hours to an indefinite period of time. For example, Judgment day lasts a thousand years. The term is used in three different ways in the creation account itself. Being the daylight hours (12 hours), being the daylight and night hours (24 hours) just as our day is used, and all 6 days or period as 1 day (144 hours).

Then why is it consistently translated as 'day' and only 'day' (in all of the translations in all of the languages I have read)? And why would the same event be described as taking six plus one days, or just one day period?

(04-07-2013 08:04 PM)The Theist Wrote:  I don't know what specifically you mean there. Where have 'we' established that? Not that I disagree, because I don't know specifically what you mean.

When textual order is to be taken as chronological order, and when it is not, where the text itself does not specify.

(04-07-2013 08:04 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Hmm. I can see that is your interpretation, but if you and I sat down and attempted to understand - to really understand the alleged mound of shit could more carefully see that most of the shit is in the interpretation or the religious and formerly religious.

What passes for evidence to believers in any one faith is in no way better than that held to by believers in any other faith. Given that they cannot all be true...

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04-07-2013, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2013 09:19 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
Is this the same dude who used to be polite?

He's now aggressive and almost incoherent.

I supect he's had a medication change, or has stopped taking them, or has been binge drinking.

PS...just read his last few posts, sounds like he's sobered up.
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