The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
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04-07-2013, 11:52 PM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 11:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thank you.

You know, uh, Bucky, when I call you pansy it isn't a reference to your sexuality, it's a reference to your following me around the forums like a jealous little mean spirited school girl. Clinging to my every word.
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04-07-2013, 11:57 PM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 07:26 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 11:52 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(04-07-2013 11:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thank you.

You know, uh, Bucky, when I call you pansy it isn't a reference to your sexuality, it's a reference to your following me around the forums like a jealous little mean spirited school girl. Clinging to my every word.

Nice try, ConflictedGayTheist. Sure it isn't. Weeping So "mean spirited" is calling your nonsense what it really is ?
You are a criminal plagiarizer, and you were called out for it. Just like you were on SAB. Of course you wouldn't like that.
This is a public board. No one follows anyone around. Just like Egor, you can't stand it that someone actually calls your garbage what it really is.
ANY theist posting the sort of ignorant infantile fundie crap you post, and tries to get away with it, I call it out. Don't delude yourself. It's not about you.
I read nonsense, I call it nonsense. You just happen to post more than your share.
How many personalities do you have ? Are you a "dissociative" personality ? Your Mini Gun Fodder thread was pretty scary.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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05-07-2013, 12:04 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  Of course she knew what she was told, and she was being truthful to the serpent, but how did she know she was being lied to if she had no idea what it meant.

You mean how could she have known? Have you considered what I've told you she had to work with, believe the Creator or believe a serpent. Consider the fact that she had been around an indeterminate period of time. A serpent she was undoubtedly accustomed to, but a speaking serpent?

You can ask yourself, if, even as a child, you are told something by a parent you trust and this is contradicted by something you are not accustomed to which would you believe? Most probably for good reason.

(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  She only knew "good and evil" afterward.

Well, Paul mentions that Eve was deceived but Adam made a consious decision for fear of losing his mate. The "knowledge" of good and evil, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, explained by the Jerusalem Bible, was the decision to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad. They rejected God's guidence.

(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  Was she warned about a serpent that may tell her something that wasn't true? Were they warned that Satan had been cast out of heaven and fell to earth and would attempt to ruin their life in the garden? If not, why?

To clarify, the angel later known as Satan was placed in charge of protecting Adam and Eve.

They were not warned of a serpent or Satan. Why not? It wasn't known that there was a danger there. But again, common sense dictates that Eve should have trusted her Creator and husband rather than a serpent.
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05-07-2013, 12:10 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
Did you want to respond to my comment at some point?

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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05-07-2013, 12:13 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(05-07-2013 12:10 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Did you want to respond to my comment at some point?

Maybe I overlooked it, I'll check it out. If it is just smart ass I don't always have time for that.
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05-07-2013, 12:18 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(05-07-2013 12:13 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 12:10 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Did you want to respond to my comment at some point?

Maybe I overlooked it, I'll check it out. If it is just smart ass I don't always have time for that.

I like to mix a little ass with my smarts. Can't help it. God made me that way.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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05-07-2013, 12:22 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(05-07-2013 12:04 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  Of course she knew what she was told, and she was being truthful to the serpent, but how did she know she was being lied to if she had no idea what it meant.

You mean how could she have known? Have you considered what I've told you she had to work with, believe the Creator or believe a serpent. Consider the fact that she had been around an indeterminate period of time. A serpent she was undoubtedly accustomed to, but a speaking serpent?

You can ask yourself, if, even as a child, you are told something by a parent you trust and this is contradicted by something you are not accustomed to which would you believe? Most probably for good reason.

(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  She only knew "good and evil" afterward.

Well, Paul mentions that Eve was deceived but Adam made a consious decision for fear of losing his mate. The "knowledge" of good and evil, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, explained by the Jerusalem Bible, was the decision to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad. They rejected God's guidence.

(04-07-2013 11:08 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  Was she warned about a serpent that may tell her something that wasn't true? Were they warned that Satan had been cast out of heaven and fell to earth and would attempt to ruin their life in the garden? If not, why?

To clarify, the angel later known as Satan was placed in charge of protecting Adam and Eve.

They were not warned of a serpent or Satan. Why not? It wasn't known that there was a danger there. But again, common sense dictates that Eve should have trusted her Creator and husband rather than a serpent.

I rather like Fisty's argument, and think you didn't answer it very adequately. You've got to avoid filtering it through your hindsight bias... instead, put yourself in Eve's position. Having never encountered deception, how could you know when you're being lied to? Whether or not you've encountered speaking serpents, how can you know that it's unusual or noteworthy? In Eve's situation, everything would be "new", and neither the scientific method nor rules of logic have been figured out (nor the concept of "common sense" that you believe she ought to have had). I think you're giving her too much credit.

I think you drew the wrong conclusion from your own analogy to a child trusting his or her parents. If your parents told you that Santa Claus existed, would you believe them, even if it contradicted everything you observed? Of course -- kids do it all the time. Would you believe someone else who told you that your parents were lying? Probably. You'd have no method of determining what is the truth, and your immediacy bias would lead you to believe what you heard most recently.

Now you claim that Adam and Eve weren't warned of the serpent because "it wasn't known there was a danger there". It wasn't known by... an all-knowing God? Was God blindsided by this event? What about while it was happening -- was God unaware that they were being tempted? The text makes it sound like that's exactly what happened, because they seem to have thought they could hide from God (which, if they knew that God was all-present or all-knowing, violated "common sense"). Who gave the serpent the power to speak in the first place? Who allowed Satan access to humans after this incident? It's like you have two concepts of God, one in which he lacks control and knowledge (and for some strange reason responsibility) when things go wrong, and another one in which he controls and knows all when not applying this control or knowledge to actual situations.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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05-07-2013, 12:32 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
(04-07-2013 10:28 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Genesis 1: God creates plants before man

Genesis 2: After resting on the 7th day, God creates man (again) and then creates plants for him

Writings of that period and area tend to repeat themselves. So God didn't create man again after the 7th day.

(04-07-2013 10:28 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  You told a friend that you went to the mall before buying a coat (duh). Then you told another friend after the fact that you bought a coat and then went to the mall (huh?).


Not exatly, in the chronological example I told a friend that I went to the mall and bought a coat, in the topical example I told a friend that I bought a coat at the mall.

The first creation account is in chapter 1 of Genesis (Genesis 1:1–2:4), the second, that is the topical, is in chapter 2. (Genesis 2:5 - 4:26)

The topical account gives information as it becomes relevant, for example, Adam was to live in the garden, so at that time the planting of the garden is mentioned, he is to name the animals so their creation is mentioned.

(04-07-2013 10:28 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  You bring nothing new to the table. This is the same old wretched defense of the many contradictions in the bible. As if contradictions were the biggest offenders in your precious man-made book. By the way, exactly which version are we talking about anyway?

The fact remains that the widely held belief in this contradiction is baseless.

Any version you want.

(04-07-2013 10:28 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Funny that your God writes books in such a manner that it is left wide open for confusion. So confusing in fact, that you religious can't even agree on the subject matter amongst yourselves.

Omnipotence: Can God create a rock he cannot lift?

Omniscience: Does God know when he's going to know something?

God being omnipotent and omniscient in the strictest sense is a matter of the theological rather than the scriptural. It is more religious tradition than Biblical.
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05-07-2013, 12:53 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
Forgive my lack of direct quotes. Typing on my phone as I lie in bed... white and black striped boxer briefs in case you were wondering.

The problem that I pointed out between Genesis 1 & 2 is that in 2, it first mentions that god rested on the 7th day after all his hard work. That means right off the bat, it has established that it is now talking about the 7th day.

Even if 2 was a topical explanation, it mentions man being created before plants. That's inconsistent with Genesis 1.

I know exactly what you said in your analogy. I simply rearranged it to relate it to Genesis 1 & 2.

As for god's nature... what is he then? Both omniscient and omnipotent? Neither? One or the other?

I hope your answer isn't along the lines of "we cannot ever know that"

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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05-07-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: The Desparation Of (A)theism Exemplified
I can imagine god on some computer keyboard.
After typing 6 letters, he rested on the 7th.

When asked by his boss what he was doing, he replied "Had to take a break. Those first 6 letters wore me out"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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