The Devil's Advocate
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14-03-2016, 05:25 AM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 12:39 AM)Vosur Wrote:  The political system we have in Germany is very boring for the average citizen. We don't even get to vote directly for our head of state so it's very difficult for personality cults to follow the way they do in the US. Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have their own fiercely loyal personality cults and while I think that neither of them are fit to be president, I'm fascinated by their ability to manipulate the masses into supporting them based on unrealistic promises. Their rallies are attended by thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of people, something that none of the other candidates in this election cycle have been able to achieve.


I sincerely hope for all of my American friends that the anti-establishment movement that Bernie and Trump started will give birth to an outsider candidate who can offer a moderate alternative to their extreme left-wing and right-wing positions.

It's unlikely any third person candidate will emerge, the most notable of third party candidates in recent memory was Ross Perot He came in third place, but did impact the election in 1992.

The personality cult thing is unfortunate, a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about what a candidate could actually do and it's become rather boring from my perspective. Every election cycle has people projecting their messianic beliefs upon their favorite candidate. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-03-2016, 06:11 AM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
I knew you were trolling us, which is why I stayed out of it. Anyone with your grammar skills couldn't possibly fall for Trump. Smile

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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14-03-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 12:39 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have their own fiercely loyal personality cults and while I think that neither of them are fit to be president, I'm fascinated by their ability to manipulate the masses into supporting them based on unrealistic promises. Their rallies are attended by thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of people, something that none of the other candidates in this election cycle have been able to achieve.

I will totally agree that most of what Sanders is proposing isn't realistic, once you have to run it through the two houses of congress. While I like a lot of what he says, I don't expect him to actually make significant raises to the minimum wage, make serious changes to the ACA, or make state college free. What I like about him is what he represents. He's one of few candidates to even mention the problems with our campaign and electoral system, and he's actively sworn off the two things I hate most about it (negative campaigning and super PACs).

Even as much as those issues are important to me, I don't expect that Sanders himself would be able to get those things fixed, but he might be able to start people taking these things seriously. If he could show people that they can win elections without vast sums of corporate money, more people might start running that way. If over time, we could get all of this corporate money out of politics, I think we'd have a system better set to represent what the people want, and we'd be more likely to be able to make the other kinds of changes I'd like to see, down the road.


(14-03-2016 12:39 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Based on that experience, I know that the (online) supporters of both candidates are very protective of them and react with varying degrees of hostility if either their candidate is attacked or the candidate from the other political spectrum is promoted as a better alternative.

I can't speak directly for supporters of the other conservative candidates, but I have seen a lot of people get quite defensive of Clinton. It's not uncommon for them to throw about allegations of sexism to people who support Sanders.
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14-03-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
All arbitrary hot topics and political stances aside, and regardless of my opinion on the candidates as prospective leaders, I think Bernie is the only one I don't despise as a person. Like, I'd chill with Bernie, but I wouldn't even want to be in the same room with Hillary or Trump. They're not worthy of my awesomeness.

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14-03-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
This was very poorly designed social experiment, Vosur. No research objective, no dependent or independent variables identified, no protocol, no experimental design, or sign of the type of data analysis and how you would sanitize and protect subject's anonymity. The biggest and unforgivable act is not considering the risk to your subjects. You certainly would have never made it through an Institutional Review Board in any country. 'Cause people got hurt.

#sigh
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14-03-2016, 05:40 PM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 05:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This was very poorly designed social experiment, Vosur. No research objective, no dependent or independent variables identified, no protocol, no experimental design, or sign of the type of data analysis and how you would sanitize and protect subject's anonymity. The biggest and unforgivable act is not considering the risk to your subjects. You certainly would have never made it through an Institutional Review Board in any country. 'Cause people got hurt.
I wasn't planning on having it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Laugh out load

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14-03-2016, 05:52 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2016 05:55 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 05:40 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(14-03-2016 05:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This was very poorly designed social experiment, Vosur. No research objective, no dependent or independent variables identified, no protocol, no experimental design, or sign of the type of data analysis and how you would sanitize and protect subject's anonymity. The biggest and unforgivable act is not considering the risk to your subjects. You certainly would have never made it through an Institutional Review Board in any country. 'Cause people got hurt.
I wasn't planning on having it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Laugh out load

Nonetheless, even an ad hoc social experiment should consider potential harm. And you did not get informed consent from those who you harmed. I think there are quite a few interesting social experiments we can perform here in this forum, but it requires both informed consent and risk of harm and IRB approval.

#sigh
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14-03-2016, 06:12 PM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 05:52 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-03-2016 05:40 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I wasn't planning on having it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Laugh out load

Nonetheless, even an ad hoc social experiment should consider potential harm. And you did not get informed consent from those who you harmed. I think there are quite a few interesting social experiments we can perform here in this forum, but it requires both informed consent and risk of harm and IRB approval.

What is IRB approval?

It's not like he chose a topic that would trigger anyone's PTS.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-03-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
Why is Gary Johnson terrible? because he called Trump a pussy?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-03-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: The Devil's Advocate
(14-03-2016 05:40 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I wasn't planning on having it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Laugh out load

You were actively attacking people mate. What sort of shit was that?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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