The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
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05-01-2014, 10:29 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(05-01-2014 10:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:57 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

They're dumb and you're dumb and that's all there is to it. Tongue

Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-01-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(05-01-2014 07:04 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Faith is moral certainty. It is entangled with man's ability to simulate future. You can whine and snivel and throw things all day, but faith ain't going nowhere. Tongue

In that, I have complete faith trust confidence hope. NO! Dammit!

Yes

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05-01-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(05-01-2014 10:29 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 10:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  They're dumb and you're dumb and that's all there is to it. Tongue

Drooling

Big Grin

Gwynnite is a mathematical theology, where "I love my Gwynnies" has a numerology 1/0/2/3 or truth/love/life/faith, where all words blossom from love is void.

I've read Harris out of those people - he don't know wtf he's talking about with faith. I'm sorry, but there it is. Big Grin

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06-01-2014, 05:42 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(05-01-2014 11:53 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 10:29 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Drooling

Big Grin

Gwynnite is a mathematical theology, where "I love my Gwynnies" has a numerology 1/0/2/3 or truth/love/life/faith, where all words blossom from love is void.

I've read Harris out of those people - he don't know wtf he's talking about with faith. I'm sorry, but there it is. Big Grin

You were reading the wrong Harris
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06-01-2014, 06:17 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(06-01-2014 05:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  You were reading the wrong Harris

Wouldn't surprise me. Weeping

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07-01-2014, 04:17 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
(05-01-2014 07:20 AM)OddGamer Wrote:  It really is, seriously, hard to find something we literally take on faith.

You provided numerous examples of faith above--for every apparent counter-example you provided you then showed that when novelty prevails it does not serve as a counter-example.

There was a point in time when Krauss' forum was a new erection...
There was a point in time in which Krauss sipped his first glass of water in hostile territory..
There was a time when the restausrant was new and there was a first customer...

The novel experiences--those for which an inductive step is not possible--are based in faith. There are situations in which we are ignorant and where we cannot even quantify the risk (if any). There is nothing wrong with that. With experience the faith is eventually replaced with inductive logic. The problem with many religious ideas is that they necessarily remain faith-based because there is no subsequent experience to reference to then make an inductive step. That is the real problem.

If gods were not as well-hidden as they are this wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps a deity could require you to at least initially trust in its revealed doctrine but then it could provide a demonstration that your faith was not in vain. That would be a reasonable test. For example, upon accepting that the idea of the Trinity is somehow coherent on faith an actual demonstration of the coherence of the idea follows immediately thereafter. The omniscience of Yahweh would ensure that I actually accepted the idea initially on faith. This way if faith is required it can be tested for without the problem of divine hiddeness. It is the absence of any such demonstration that makes reasonable disbelief possible and it appears inconsistent with benevolence to create a universe in which reasonable disbelief regarding a salvific doctrine is possible.
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07-01-2014, 04:57 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
The difference between belief and faith is evidence. Drinking Beverage

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07-01-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: The Difference Between Believing Something To Be True And Faith
There is a stark distinction between religious faith and normal faith... ordinary faith is usually short term whereas religious faith may last long for a lifetime.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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