The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
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01-09-2017, 02:46 PM
The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
800 000 young men and women who arrived in the US as children with their parent and aren't regularised immigrants are holding their breath as president Trump is supposed to announce in a few days what will happen to them and to the program that temporarly allowed them to stay legally within the USA and work there as any normal citizen. Of course, Trump has been rather vague as to how to deal with these people. The question of these 800 000 is central to any reform of the immigration system in the USA which is plagued by numerous issues.

I personnaly believe that these people should be put on express track to obtain their citizenship since they have been in the US for most of their lives. I do believe that the ''immigration quota'' of the US is too low for their economical needs and extremely powerful power of attraction which inevitably cause a large number of immigrants to stay within the US illegally, but making any form of expulsion ethically dubious and economically stupid. This ridiculous situation create a system of permanent crisis that feeds xenophobic demagoguery that is both wastefull financially and toxic for society.

What do you think we can expect from the POTUS in the following days?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017...ation-fear

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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01-09-2017, 02:49 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(01-09-2017 02:46 PM)epronovost Wrote:  800 000 young men and women who arrived in the US as children with their parent and aren't regularised immigrants are holding their breath as president Trump is supposed to announce in a few days what will happen to them and to the program that temporarly allowed them to stay legally within the USA and work there as any normal citizen. Of course, Trump has been rather vague as to how to deal with these people. The question of these 800 000 is central to any reform of the immigration system in the USA which is plagued by numerous issues.

I personnaly believe that these people should be put on express track to obtain their citizenship since they have been in the US for most of their lives. I do believe that the ''immigration quota'' of the US is too low for their economical needs and extremely powerful power of attraction which inevitably cause a large number of immigrants to stay within the US illegally, but making any form of expulsion ethically dubious and economically stupid. This ridiculous situation create a system of permanent crisis that feeds xenophobic demagoguery that is both wastefull financially and toxic for society.

What do you think we can expect from the POTUS in the following days?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017...ation-fear
I dunno. But regardless what he does - up to and including finding a cure for AIDS, cancer and halitosis - Brian will tell us why it's wrong....



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01-09-2017, 04:29 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(01-09-2017 02:46 PM)epronovost Wrote:  What do you think we can expect from the POTUS in the following days?

If he wasn't a stupid man, he'd be thinking I can work this. Everyone knows this is a legislative issue that Congress has been punting forever. Which is kinda like the reason Obama issued in the first place, he was hoping it spur legislative, not judicial, action. It didn't. Obama tried the carrot and it didn't work so now Trump has the opportunity to try the stick. For the win.

Rescind the EO but make it take effect 2 years from now. You gotta renew every 2 years anyway so whatever renewal you got last was the last you're gonna get, but you can stay at least until that last 2-year renewal runs out. (And for whatever time you can keep your head down and hide from ICE/FBI/IRS/CBP/The Man after that, obviously.) No new applications.

Trump wins. Maybe.

1) The base would have to accept that he satisfied his promise to end DACA with this deferred action. They will. He could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Aveneu and LDH and his ilk would find a way to defend it. Base appeased. Check.

2) Gave Congress plenty of notice to pass some sort of legislation to consider and resolve this, aka the "Do your fucking job or these kids gonna die!" tactic. So he got cover when the kids start dying he can blame it on Congress (dunno if he'll be blaming Republicans or Democrats by then). Ass covered. Check.

3) Gets to go around saying "I love kids, I love all kids, the little kids, the big kids, the huuuge kids, the fat kids, chubby cheeks, I like chubby cheeks, the brown kids, the yellow kids, .... red and yellow black and white, they are precious in his sight, see I know Jesus ... the retarded kids, the homo kids, I love all kids. I love everybody. ... And the Jewish kids. I really like the Jewish kids. Did you know I have a Jewish kid? I got 3 Jewish grandkids too. Jews make beautiful babies, so beautiful. And so innocent! Beautfiul, innocent, babies. Don't let the Democrats kill the babies." Base enthused. Check. (Mainly for his love of retarded babies, not the Jewish ones.)

If I could work this, you know there's very smart people around him who know how to work this . It's time for Grampa to be weekended at Bernie's for the rest of his term. We got enough audio and video of him at this point that we could go WisdomOfChopra on him. Put some thorazine in his water.

#sigh
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01-09-2017, 08:23 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 08:28 PM by outtathereligioncloset.)
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
"express track to obtain citizenship..."
What would your plan be for those who wish to continue to live and work here but NOT give up their citizenship in their home country/not become citizens? Yeah, believe it or not they do exist.

On this question, in general:
"What do you think we can expect from the POTUS in the following days?"
Answer: More attempts to use big words that he doesn't understand. Bigly.

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01-09-2017, 08:44 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(01-09-2017 08:23 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  "express track to obtain citizenship..."
What would your plan be for those who wish to continue to live and work here but NOT give up their citizenship in their home country/not become citizens? Yeah, believe it or not they do exist.

I'm a big fan of dual (or more) citizenship. I think they should be recognised by all countries. In case that would be impossible, permanent resident status without citizenship would be the option. Why?

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02-09-2017, 12:52 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
Hopefully, Trump will die before Tuesday.
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02-09-2017, 12:57 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(02-09-2017 12:52 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Hopefully, Trump will die before Tuesday.

[Image: tumblr_n803u9wlhg1tc1obqo2_500.gif]

Quite the moral compass ya got there lad.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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02-09-2017, 01:16 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
I forgot that his life is important because he's rich and powerful. Sorry. Never mind the de facto death sentence he's hellbent on implementing on millions in sanctuary cities. I better get my values in check.
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02-09-2017, 08:35 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(02-09-2017 01:16 AM)ImFred Wrote:  I forgot that his life is important because he's rich and powerful. Sorry. Never mind the de facto death sentence he's hellbent on implementing on millions in sanctuary cities. I better get my values in check.

Just living in Mexico is a death sentence? I've visited Mexico, and came back alive to tell you about it. Thank goodness I made it out alive!
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02-09-2017, 08:44 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(01-09-2017 02:46 PM)epronovost Wrote:  800 000 young men and women who arrived in the US as children with their parent and aren't regularised immigrants are holding their breath as president Trump is supposed to announce in a few days what will happen to them and to the program that temporarly allowed them to stay legally within the USA and work there as any normal citizen. Of course, Trump has been rather vague as to how to deal with these people. The question of these 800 000 is central to any reform of the immigration system in the USA which is plagued by numerous issues.

I personnaly believe that these people should be put on express track to obtain their citizenship since they have been in the US for most of their lives. I do believe that the ''immigration quota'' of the US is too low for their economical needs and extremely powerful power of attraction which inevitably cause a large number of immigrants to stay within the US illegally, but making any form of expulsion ethically dubious and economically stupid. This ridiculous situation create a system of permanent crisis that feeds xenophobic demagoguery that is both wastefull financially and toxic for society.

What do you think we can expect from the POTUS in the following days?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017...ation-fear


For all of Trump's bluster, he has dragged his feet on killing the DACA program despite promises to do so. He may have no choice--the program clearly had no congressional authorization and no constitutional authority for a president to do on his own. Trump has been given an ultimatum by several conservative states--kill the program or face continued legal challenges. There is a reason Trump was planning on his announcement now--he has been given an ultimatum by Texas that they will sue if Trump does not begin phasing out the program by Labor Day.
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