The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
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05-09-2017, 11:54 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(05-09-2017 02:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(05-09-2017 02:00 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ...
He could have just cancelled it on the spot and started deporting people.
...


Really stupid move. It will cost us billions to deport them, and we lose billions in taxes they now pay. They are all vetted and productive, no one on welfare at all. They are propping up the economy and we pay billions to remove them.
...

I note that LDH didn't say he wanted them deported, only that Trump could if he wanted to.

Republicans aren't like that.




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06-09-2017, 01:09 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(05-09-2017 04:06 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Bill Clinton IS a right wing murderous thug as well but he's not as easy to hate. There's something cuddly about him. Hillary was better at inspiring that kind of disgust.
So..... now the right wing umbrella is so large in your mind you can fit members of the Democratic party under there? That's...... interesting. I gotta ask because I'm curious, do you consider Obama to be a right wing murderous thug?

(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  I have zero problem with wishing Trump dead.
That just leads me to conclude your moral compass is outta wack too. Don't get me wrong though....you do you, but I don't consider that a morally justified position to take.

(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  He is not about political ideas or policies.
Well that's just ludicrous, of course he is. It's literally his job right now.

(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  He's a man that is proposing to harm to millions of people in multitudes of ways in the US and the world and the whole world knows it!
I don't disagree, entirely anyway, but I think morally you need something a bit more than "proposes bad policy, that could have a net harm on the country" to start wishing a man be fucking killed, especially when their are plenty of legal options that don't involve the man dying. I think he's a human version of an active garbage fire but I don't wish the man dead.

(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  No one should get away with this.

I agree but ...literally every President does. I mean ...Trump has been in office for about 228 days. At that point Lincoln in his presidency had started arresting members of the press and throwing them in a jail for political dissenters......and I doubt you wish Lincoln had died there.

Obama’s covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes than Bush
The Obama Administration Should Be Found Guilty of War Crimes in Yemen
The Obama administration may be guilty of war crimes

The Obama administration and the legitimization of torture
Spying on The Associated Press





(05-09-2017 06:21 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  I have no problem with anyone wishing death upon him.
And when people start calling for the death of people you DO like will you be as meh about it? I doubt it personally.

(05-09-2017 06:35 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  I suppose you would find a way to condemn wanting hitler dead too.
Well it sure didn't take long to go from comparing a guy in his first year of office to one of history's largest mass murdering war criminals. That's helpful.

If Hitler was captured at the end of the Second World war the moral thing, the thing that is in keeping with the rule of law and due process, he should have been arrested, tried, and given the maximum sentence under the law up to and including a legal execution.

That comparison is just ...idiotic to be frank, they aren't even comparable.


(05-09-2017 06:35 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  Lowlife.
[Image: giphy.gif]

Ya it's the guy NOT arguing for it being OK to wish people dead that's the low life.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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06-09-2017, 05:34 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
I don't know about "right wing" but Obama is certainly a muderous thug. He ordered the execution of an American citizen, killed the guys son as well, and had the military fire missiles from drones that killed dozens of innocent people.

If that's not a murderous thug, then the phrase has no meaning.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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06-09-2017, 06:47 AM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
Pretty sure it had no meaning before because the offhand goofy use of thug like that

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06-09-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(05-09-2017 11:54 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I note that LDH didn't say he wanted them deported, only that Trump could if he wanted to.

Republicans aren't like that.




Note that you're showing a debate from 37 years ago. The standard positions of both parties have changed a lot in a generation. I'm not saying your statement is wrong, but two individuals debating 37 years ago probably isn't the best metric for how the party in aggregate feels today.
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07-09-2017, 06:13 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(05-09-2017 09:34 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 08:23 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  What would your plan be for those who wish to continue to live and work here but NOT give up their citizenship in their home country/not become citizens? Yeah, believe it or not they do exist.

I'm sure they do exist but they may have to make a choice here.

This may be that rare instance where Trump made the correct political move and calculation. The DACA policy Obama put in place, and he originally agreed to keep, was being challengedin the courts. This move forces Congress to get involved to resolve this issue.

Given all the things he could have done here, his decision isn't awful. Hopefully Congress does the right thing and solves this for all these people.

I agree with you.

I feel President Obama's DACA "solution" just punted things down the road, as so often happens in Washington. I feel that the Congress needs to pass a relatively permanent solution, and one that is relatively sympathetic toward current Dreamers.

However, we need to get our immigration laws in order. What we have currently is a joke. Latino gang thugs need to be deported or imprisoned. And we need to go back to a quota system that provides a balance of immigrants from a variety of countries...not just Mexicans because they more easily sneak across the border. As is too often the case, we have a Congress that is derelict in their duties.
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07-09-2017, 06:16 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(05-09-2017 04:10 PM)Dom Wrote:  If I were ruler of another country, I would shout from the roof tops that these guys are welcome in my country. They sound like good, productive citizens. Maybe Canada will take them, or France.

How many have you taken into your home?
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07-09-2017, 06:19 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(06-09-2017 05:34 AM)BnW Wrote:  I don't know about "right wing" but Obama is certainly a muderous thug. He ordered the execution of an American citizen, killed the guys son as well, and had the military fire missiles from drones that killed dozens of innocent people.

If that's not a murderous thug, then the phrase has no meaning.

Yup. So was Truman by that definition. Don't think either Truman or Obama would disagree with you by that definition.

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(07-09-2017 06:16 PM)phetaroi Wrote:  
(05-09-2017 04:10 PM)Dom Wrote:  If I were ruler of another country, I would shout from the roof tops that these guys are welcome in my country. They sound like good, productive citizens. Maybe Canada will take them, or France.

How many have you taken into your home?

6. I've taken in and supported 6 until they were capable of sustaining their contribution to society on their own. 6. You?

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 07:31 PM
RE: The ''Dreamers'' fate in the balance
(07-09-2017 06:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 06:16 PM)phetaroi Wrote:  How many have you taken into your home?

6. I've taken in and supported 6 until they were capable of sustaining their contribution to society on their own. 6. You?

I applaud you.

None. However, as a school principal I worked especially hard to see that our Latino students were given every opportunity to fully participate in opportunities our school system provided, including inclusion in gifted programs (where appropriate), fairness in disciplinary hearings, and working with a couple of students who were in a gang to help them get out of a gang.

However, I think you miss the point of my previous post.
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