The Electoral College
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14-12-2016, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2016 03:44 PM by tomilay.)
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 03:24 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-12-2016 03:22 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Yes it is. But it's true. Anjele asked.

The point is that the current election infringes on all 3 guide lines the electoral college has.

157 times before in our history, members of the electoral college have acted on much less infringement than we have today.

I agree. If they rubber stamp November 9th, then the December 19th thing is an irrelevant ritual; a waste of time and resources.

Yet, this is also the year where the one group that will stop at nothing to get power has, alas, the final say. They promised to obstruct and undermine Obama's agenda. They spent 8 years of his administration doing exactly that. They have been rewarded handsomely.

There will be a few symbolic faithless electors. But the inmates have taken over the asylum.

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14-12-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: The Electoral College
My apologies for not quite understanding the intent in the OP. I asked a question to try to understand something better.

I will show myself out.

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14-12-2016, 04:01 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 03:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  My apologies for not quite understanding the intent in the OP. I asked a question to try to understand something better.

I will show myself out.

HugHug Sorry for being unclear.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-12-2016, 04:04 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2016 04:08 PM by Grasshopper.)
RE: The Electoral College
Let's take a look at the possibilities here. I will say up front that I'm not enthused by any of them.

(1) 36 or fewer electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton: Trump still wins.

(2) Exactly 37 electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Neither candidate has a majority of electoral votes. The House of Representatives will decide the outcome. Note that they can't pick just anyone. Their choices are limited to those candidates who actually got electoral votes, so Clinton and Trump are the only choices. With a solid majority of state delegations Republican, there's no way they're going to pick Clinton. Trump still wins.

(3) 38 or more electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Clinton wins. Obviously, this is the best-case scenario for Clinton supporters, but (a) she will be over a month behind on preparations to take office (unless she has been doing that behind the scenes); (b) she would still be a shitty president, just not as shitty as Trump; ( c ) she will have immense trouble accomplishing anything at all with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress; and, what worries me most, (d) Trump and his supporters will go ballistic. If you thought there were "riots" after Trump's win, you ain't seen nothin' yet. I don't think it would be the civil war that LDH predicted, but it won't be pretty either.

I don't see a good outcome here. It's gonna be a rough ride no matter what happens.
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14-12-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 04:04 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Let's take a look at the possibilities here. I will say up front that I'm not enthused by any of them.

(1) 36 or fewer electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton: Trump still wins.

(2) Exactly 37 electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Neither candidate has a majority of electoral votes. The House of Representatives will decide the outcome. Note that they can't pick just anyone. Their choices are limited to those candidates who actually got electoral votes, so Clinton and Trump are the only choices. With a solid majority of state delegations Republican, there's no way they're going to pick Clinton. Trump still wins.

(3) 38 or more electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Clinton wins. Obviously, this is the best-case scenario for Clinton supporters, but (a) she will be over a month behind on preparations to take office (unless she has been doing that behind the scenes); (b) she would still be a shitty president, just not as shitty as Trump; © she will have immense trouble accomplishing anything at all with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress; and, what worries me most, (4) Trump and his supporters will go ballistic. If you thought there were "riots" after Trump's win, you ain't seen nothin' yet. I don't think it would be the civil war that LDH predicted, but it won't be pretty either.

I don't see a good outcome here. It's gonna be a rough ride no matter what happens.

Except according to the guidelines they are "going rogue" by letting the election pass...

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14-12-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 02:26 PM)Anjele Wrote:  While I agree that the structure of the Electoral College is past due for a change or elimination, I also think that we have to accept this election as it stands. The election was decided according to the rules in place at the time.

While I agree with you 100 percent and fully expect Trump to be our next president, and while I feel that anything OTHER than Trump as our next president would introduce a level of instability that our republic may not survive, I must also observe that an Electoral College that decides on Dec. 19 NOT to install Donald Trump would also be playing by the rules in place at the time of the election.

Simply put, the Constitution empowers the Electors to make the decision.

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14-12-2016, 04:15 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 04:08 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I feel that anything OTHER than Trump as our next president would introduce a level of instability that our republic may not survive

Unfortunately I think this is the case too. Weeping I think he would try to mobilize the masses...

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14-12-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 04:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-12-2016 04:04 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Let's take a look at the possibilities here. I will say up front that I'm not enthused by any of them.

(1) 36 or fewer electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton: Trump still wins.

(2) Exactly 37 electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Neither candidate has a majority of electoral votes. The House of Representatives will decide the outcome. Note that they can't pick just anyone. Their choices are limited to those candidates who actually got electoral votes, so Clinton and Trump are the only choices. With a solid majority of state delegations Republican, there's no way they're going to pick Clinton. Trump still wins.

(3) 38 or more electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Clinton wins. Obviously, this is the best-case scenario for Clinton supporters, but (a) she will be over a month behind on preparations to take office (unless she has been doing that behind the scenes); (b) she would still be a shitty president, just not as shitty as Trump; © she will have immense trouble accomplishing anything at all with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress; and, what worries me most, (4) Trump and his supporters will go ballistic. If you thought there were "riots" after Trump's win, you ain't seen nothin' yet. I don't think it would be the civil war that LDH predicted, but it won't be pretty either.

I don't see a good outcome here. It's gonna be a rough ride no matter what happens.

Except according to the guidelines they are "going rogue" by letting the election pass...

Right -- I wasn't using "going rogue" in a pejorative sense -- that just seems to be the standard term for electors going against the mandate of their state. I don't think there would be anything "wrong" with them doing this, especially considering all the problems you outlined. But I agree with TwoCultSurvivor that if the election actually were overturned, a large percentage of the country would not accept that, and we would be in for "interesting times". As much as I hate Trump, that scenario might be even worse.
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14-12-2016, 04:25 PM
The Electoral College
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Even if Russia uncovered some Clinton shenanigans, were they not true? If they are true then the people should know about it.
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14-12-2016, 04:28 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 04:04 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Let's take a look at the possibilities here. I will say up front that I'm not enthused by any of them.

(1) 36 or fewer electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton: Trump still wins.

(2) Exactly 37 electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Neither candidate has a majority of electoral votes. The House of Representatives will decide the outcome. Note that they can't pick just anyone. Their choices are limited to those candidates who actually got electoral votes, so Clinton and Trump are the only choices. With a solid majority of state delegations Republican, there's no way they're going to pick Clinton. Trump still wins.

(3) 38 or more electors "go rogue" in favor of Clinton. Clinton wins. Obviously, this is the best-case scenario for Clinton supporters, but (a) she will be over a month behind on preparations to take office (unless she has been doing that behind the scenes); (b) she would still be a shitty president, just not as shitty as Trump; ( c ) she will have immense trouble accomplishing anything at all with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress; and, what worries me most, (d) Trump and his supporters will go ballistic. If you thought there were "riots" after Trump's win, you ain't seen nothin' yet. I don't think it would be the civil war that LDH predicted, but it won't be pretty either.

I don't see a good outcome here. It's gonna be a rough ride no matter what happens.
I think there's a fourth option: Exactly 37 electors go rogue in favor of a third candidate and Congress picks that person as president.

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