The Electoral College
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15-12-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 12:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  There's only a handful that say they won't be voting for their state choice.

What really gets me, there are few from states where Clinton won.

They say they are protesting the overall election. It's all kinds of stupid. They aren't (they claim) Trump supporters.

2016 is just the year when stupid came out to play and took the ball and ran away with it.

Actually, it makes a fair bit of sense. Unless there's some real expectation that a truly historic number of Republican Electors were going to vote Hillary up to 270 then a vote for Hillary is pretty much worthless. Might as well say something with it.

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15-12-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 12:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  2016 is just the year when stupid came out to play and took the ball and ran away with it.

I don't think the Russians are all that stupid.


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15-12-2016, 08:25 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(14-12-2016 02:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  There are the following 3 purposes governing the electoral college:

Quote: In Federalist No. 68, Alexander Hamilton wrote that the electors would prevent those with “Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. They would also stop anyone who would “convulse the community with any extraordinary or violent movements.”

Quote:In Federalist No. 68, Hamilton wrote that one major purpose of the Electoral College was to stop the “desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” He said that the college would “Guard against all danger of this sort … with the most provident and judicious attention” from the electors.

Quote:The third goal was to prevent poor administration of government. This is a less well-known purpose of the Electoral College, but it is again expressly discussed in Federalist No. 68. Hamilton wrote that “the true test of a good government is its aptitude and tendency to produce a good administration,” and for that reason, he said, the electors should be “able to estimate the share which the executive in every government must necessarily have in its good or ill administration.”

Quote:This election has three aspects that have brought the Electoral College back to relevance.

First, Donald Trump is the first unquestioned demagogue to become a major-party nominee in our country’s history. On his quest to the general election, he stoked prejudices and passions to flout fundamental constitutional norms, such as our freedoms of the press, religion, and peaceful assembly.


Quote:Second, there’s incontrovertible evidence that Russia interfered in the campaign, by hacking the email accounts of top Democratic officials and cooperating with WikiLeaks’ parallel campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton campaign. Meanwhile, Trump has business entanglements in Russia and other foreign countries, the extent to which are unknown because Trump has not released his tax returns.

Quote:And third, his opponent, Hillary Clinton, is on track to win the popular vote now by over 2 million votes — over four times Al Gore’s narrow margin over George W. Bush in 2000 — a factor electors ought to be able to weigh, whether or not they think it is conclusive.
All of these factors lead us directly to a renascent Electoral College

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/...dent-trump

So, if you want the above to be considered, you might want to head to https://www.change.org/p/electoral-colle...ecember-19 to join a petition currently by 4.5 million people.

Funny thing--I'm old enough to remember when questioning the results of the election was unpatriotic. Oh yeah, that was before Clinton lost. My bad. Carry on with election intrigue fantasies.
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15-12-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 08:25 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Funny thing--I'm old enough to remember when questioning the results of the election was unpatriotic. Oh yeah, that was before Clinton lost. My bad. Carry on with election intrigue fantasies.

You’re 220? Damn you’re old!

1796 — Elector Samuel Miles of Pennsylvania votes for Thomas Jefferson rather than John Adams, for whom he was pledged to vote. Miles is the first elector in American history to break ranks with his state’s party leaders. He’s not the last.

1808 — Six electors refuse to support James Madison, as their party instructs, choosing instead to vote for his opponent, George Clinton.

1812 — Three Federalist electors refuse to vote for their party’s vice presidential candidate.

1820 — Elector William Plummer of New Hampshire refuses to vote for James Monroe, apparently because he felt George Washington should remain the only president elected unanimously by the Electoral College. Plummer votes for John Quincy Adams, who was not an active candidate.

1828 — Seven electors from Georgia refuse to vote for Andrew Jackson’s vice-presidential candidate John Calhoun.

1832 — Two Maryland electors pledged to presidential candidate Henry Clay choose to abstain. In addition, thirty Pennsylvania electors pledged to vice-presidential candidate Martin Van Buren (Andrew Jackson’s running mate) vote for someone else.

1836 — Martin Van Buren’s vice-presidential candidate Richard M. Johnson loses twenty-three electoral votes from Virginia in response to a sex scandal.

1872 — Democratic candidate Horace Greeley (who had lost to Ulysses S. Grant) dies before the Electoral College convenes. Sixty-three democratic electors choose to vote for other Democratic candidates, but Grant is elected. This one is particularly important, I think, because it proves that electors not only can vote, but have voted, for whomever they wish in extraordinary circumstances.

1896 — Four electors switch parties. Both parties supported the same presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan. This switch was significant, though, in that a) each of the electors chose to abandon their existing party allegiances and b) each elector’s vote for Vice President changed.

1912 — Eight electors change their votes after the vice-presidential candidate on the losing Republican ticket, James S. Sherman, dies. Notice once again that the electors opted to vote for candidates of their own choice in response to extraordinary circumstances, as opposed to simply reciting the names they were “supposed to” recite. They used their minds. They analyzed the situation.

1948, 1956, 1960, 1968, 1976, 1988, 2000, 2004 — Each of these gatherings of the Electoral College featured a single elector casting a protest vote of some kind.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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15-12-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 08:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 08:25 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Funny thing--I'm old enough to remember when questioning the results of the election was unpatriotic. Oh yeah, that was before Clinton lost. My bad. Carry on with election intrigue fantasies.

You’re 220? Damn you’re old!

1796 — Elector Samuel Miles of Pennsylvania votes for Thomas Jefferson rather than John Adams, for whom he was pledged to vote. Miles is the first elector in American history to break ranks with his state’s party leaders. He’s not the last.

1808 — Six electors refuse to support James Madison, as their party instructs, choosing instead to vote for his opponent, George Clinton.

1812 — Three Federalist electors refuse to vote for their party’s vice presidential candidate.

1820 — Elector William Plummer of New Hampshire refuses to vote for James Monroe, apparently because he felt George Washington should remain the only president elected unanimously by the Electoral College. Plummer votes for John Quincy Adams, who was not an active candidate.

1828 — Seven electors from Georgia refuse to vote for Andrew Jackson’s vice-presidential candidate John Calhoun.

1832 — Two Maryland electors pledged to presidential candidate Henry Clay choose to abstain. In addition, thirty Pennsylvania electors pledged to vice-presidential candidate Martin Van Buren (Andrew Jackson’s running mate) vote for someone else.

1836 — Martin Van Buren’s vice-presidential candidate Richard M. Johnson loses twenty-three electoral votes from Virginia in response to a sex scandal.

1872 — Democratic candidate Horace Greeley (who had lost to Ulysses S. Grant) dies before the Electoral College convenes. Sixty-three democratic electors choose to vote for other Democratic candidates, but Grant is elected. This one is particularly important, I think, because it proves that electors not only can vote, but have voted, for whomever they wish in extraordinary circumstances.

1896 — Four electors switch parties. Both parties supported the same presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan. This switch was significant, though, in that a) each of the electors chose to abandon their existing party allegiances and b) each elector’s vote for Vice President changed.

1912 — Eight electors change their votes after the vice-presidential candidate on the losing Republican ticket, James S. Sherman, dies. Notice once again that the electors opted to vote for candidates of their own choice in response to extraordinary circumstances, as opposed to simply reciting the names they were “supposed to” recite. They used their minds. They analyzed the situation.

1948, 1956, 1960, 1968, 1976, 1988, 2000, 2004 — Each of these gatherings of the Electoral College featured a single elector casting a protest vote of some kind.


You failed to grasp my criticism. Just months ago, anyone suggesting challenging hypothetical election results whereby Clinton won were immediately branded as unpatriotic. Were you one of those people who levied that criticism of Trump?
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15-12-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 08:47 PM)BryanS Wrote:  You failed to grasp my criticism. Just months ago, anyone suggesting challenging hypothetical election results whereby Clinton won were immediately branded as unpatriotic. Were you one of those people who levied that criticism of Trump?

Trump was rightly criticized for claiming that the election was rigged before voting ever started. That sort of baseless imbecility damages the democratic process. Ironically, Trump then won the election. Should we presume that it was rigged? Facepalm Having won, Trump continued to claim the election was rigged. His stoopidity knows no bounds.

This discussion is not about who won the election. Sadly, that result is obvious. The question is whether or not Trump is fit for office and whether the electors should take action if he is not. Putting a clown in the Whitehouse does not make him a President, it merely tarnishes and cheapens the office. I see nothing unpatriotic about preventing that.

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15-12-2016, 10:25 PM
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 06:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Hey, I was considering going to look for you, hadn't seen you in a while....Heart

Been busy trying to get crap ready for the holidays. I've had internet issues, and now fucked up weather issues.

Kids are on school break now (early break barely got them Wednesday once once it started snowing), and while it's not like they're little, it's just still easier to get shit done with them in school.

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15-12-2016, 10:44 PM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2016 10:47 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: The Electoral College
(15-12-2016 08:47 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 08:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You’re 220? Damn you’re old!

1796 — Elector Samuel Miles of Pennsylvania votes for Thomas Jefferson rather than John Adams, for whom he was pledged to vote. Miles is the first elector in American history to break ranks with his state’s party leaders. He’s not the last.

1808 — Six electors refuse to support James Madison, as their party instructs, choosing instead to vote for his opponent, George Clinton.

1812 — Three Federalist electors refuse to vote for their party’s vice presidential candidate.

1820 — Elector William Plummer of New Hampshire refuses to vote for James Monroe, apparently because he felt George Washington should remain the only president elected unanimously by the Electoral College. Plummer votes for John Quincy Adams, who was not an active candidate.

1828 — Seven electors from Georgia refuse to vote for Andrew Jackson’s vice-presidential candidate John Calhoun.

1832 — Two Maryland electors pledged to presidential candidate Henry Clay choose to abstain. In addition, thirty Pennsylvania electors pledged to vice-presidential candidate Martin Van Buren (Andrew Jackson’s running mate) vote for someone else.

1836 — Martin Van Buren’s vice-presidential candidate Richard M. Johnson loses twenty-three electoral votes from Virginia in response to a sex scandal.

1872 — Democratic candidate Horace Greeley (who had lost to Ulysses S. Grant) dies before the Electoral College convenes. Sixty-three democratic electors choose to vote for other Democratic candidates, but Grant is elected. This one is particularly important, I think, because it proves that electors not only can vote, but have voted, for whomever they wish in extraordinary circumstances.

1896 — Four electors switch parties. Both parties supported the same presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan. This switch was significant, though, in that a) each of the electors chose to abandon their existing party allegiances and b) each elector’s vote for Vice President changed.

1912 — Eight electors change their votes after the vice-presidential candidate on the losing Republican ticket, James S. Sherman, dies. Notice once again that the electors opted to vote for candidates of their own choice in response to extraordinary circumstances, as opposed to simply reciting the names they were “supposed to” recite. They used their minds. They analyzed the situation.

1948, 1956, 1960, 1968, 1976, 1988, 2000, 2004 — Each of these gatherings of the Electoral College featured a single elector casting a protest vote of some kind.


You failed to grasp my criticism. Just months ago, anyone suggesting challenging hypothetical election results whereby Clinton won were immediately branded as unpatriotic. Were you one of those people who levied that criticism of Trump?

You failed to grasp my lighthearted sarcasm whilst teaching you a bit of American history.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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16-12-2016, 02:49 AM
The Electoral College
[Image: 6f0e9e27a0a0c2a13f22626b036e860a.jpg]

Why do we have an electoral college? This is why. Do we really want Massachusetts, Vermont, and the California coast deciding for the entire country? I don't think that would be a good idea.
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16-12-2016, 03:18 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(16-12-2016 02:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  [Image: 6f0e9e27a0a0c2a13f22626b036e860a.jpg]

Why do we have an electoral college? This is why. Do we really want Massachusetts, Vermont, and the California coast deciding for the entire country? I don't think that would be a good idea.

I've seen that map. If I recall correctly all the blue bits are basically urban centres - more heavily populated. If the map was weighted by population the red and blue should about balance out.

Electoral colleges skew vote weights, assuming that every elector votes as per convention, according to who won their state. It's a bizarre system.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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