The Electoral College
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16-12-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(16-12-2016 03:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 02:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  [Image: 6f0e9e27a0a0c2a13f22626b036e860a.jpg]

Why do we have an electoral college? This is why. Do we really want Massachusetts, Vermont, and the California coast deciding for the entire country? I don't think that would be a good idea.

I've seen that map. If I recall correctly all the blue bits are basically urban centres - more heavily populated. If the map was weighted by population the red and blue should about balance out.

Electoral colleges skew vote weights, assuming that every elector votes as per convention, according to who won their state. It's a bizarre system.
The electoral college vs popular serves a similar purpose as a senator in the Senate and a representative in the house.

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16-12-2016, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 09:54 AM by tomilay.)
RE: The Electoral College
(16-12-2016 03:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 02:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  [Image: 6f0e9e27a0a0c2a13f22626b036e860a.jpg]

Why do we have an electoral college? This is why. Do we really want Massachusetts, Vermont, and the California coast deciding for the entire country? I don't think that would be a good idea.

I've seen that map. If I recall correctly all the blue bits are basically urban centres - more heavily populated. If the map was weighted by population the red and blue should about balance out.

Electoral colleges skew vote weights, assuming that every elector votes as per convention, according to who won their state. It's a bizarre system.

Yes they do. I understand the motivation. But they have it backwards. The popular vote should always prevail. Thereafter, one can include further conditions that ensure it is representative. For example, you could require a certain percentage of the vote in a certain number of states to secure the victory. If no one meets the criteria, then a runoff between the top two candidates with a first past line victor.

The Electoral College most likely started off with a certain parity to the popular vote. It was not expected to dilute anybody's vote. It was not expected that someone with fewer popular votes would win. In fact, it was presumed it would faithfully represent the popular vote. Needless to say, jason_delisle is wrong about its purpose https://www.archives.gov/federal-registe...about.html .

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16-12-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(16-12-2016 09:32 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 03:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  I've seen that map. If I recall correctly all the blue bits are basically urban centres - more heavily populated. If the map was weighted by population the red and blue should about balance out.

Electoral colleges skew vote weights, assuming that every elector votes as per convention, according to who won their state. It's a bizarre system.

Yes they do. I understand the motivation. But they have it backwards. The popular vote should always prevail. Thereafter, one can include further conditions that ensure it is representative. For example, you could require a certain percentage of the vote in a certain number of states to secure the victory. If no one meets the criteria, then a runoff between the top two candidates with a first past line victor.

The Electoral College most likely started off with a certain parity to the popular vote. It was not expected to dilute anybody's vote. It was not expected that someone with fewer popular votes would win. In fact, it was presumed it would faithfully represent the popular vote. Needless to say, jason_delisle is wrong about its purpose https://www.archives.gov/federal-registe...about.html .
Interesting. I will check out the link.

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16-12-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: The Electoral College
Eh I think the 1st part also reflects Andrew Jackson and he was prevented from being president by the EC system.. I'm 1824 but not so 4 years later because it could only hold off popularity so long

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19-12-2016, 08:12 AM
RE: The Electoral College
Today is the day they vote.
Time to see what the day will bring.

The US could end up with a President selected by the House of Representatives if the electoral college doesn't give enough votes to either candidate.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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19-12-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(19-12-2016 08:12 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Today is the day they vote.
Time to see what the day will bring.

The US could end up with a President selected by the House of Representatives if the electoral college doesn't give enough votes to either candidate.

It would be another strange turn in a very strange year. But for fucks sake, if they pick Trump anyway, it's pointless. And if they don't, all hell breaks loose.

Putin is the winner Smile

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-12-2016, 08:32 AM
RE: The Electoral College
The Electoral College is a TOTAL JOKE.

Any person who is not *free* to "vote" their conscience is a not actually casting a "vote".

Many states have been allowed to subvert the Constitution and it's intent by "requiring" the Electors to *do* something. That, in no way, meets any definition of a "vote". Whatever it is they think they are doing, it's not "voting".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-12-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(19-12-2016 08:12 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Today is the day they vote.
Time to see what the day will bring.

The US could end up with a President selected by the House of Representatives if the electoral college doesn't give enough votes to either candidate.

It's almost as if you think the Electoral College will act like anything more than a mindless rubber stamp for the November 9th outcome.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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19-12-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(19-12-2016 09:01 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 08:12 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Today is the day they vote.
Time to see what the day will bring.

The US could end up with a President selected by the House of Representatives if the electoral college doesn't give enough votes to either candidate.

It's almost as if you think the Electoral College will act like anything more than a mindless rubber stamp for the November 9th outcome.

It's technically possible that they might not. If they do, that tells us interesting things about your democracy. If they don't, again, interesting things. Specifically if they all conform like obedient little electors then it shows that whatever constitutional protection that the electoral college was supposed to function as is dead, and Trump can do his thing with impunity. If not, if they show a bit of spine then even if Trump is elected it shows that he can expect opposition in the future.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-12-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: The Electoral College
(19-12-2016 09:13 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 09:01 AM)tomilay Wrote:  It's almost as if you think the Electoral College will act like anything more than a mindless rubber stamp for the November 9th outcome.

It's technically possible that they might not. If they do, that tells us interesting things about your democracy. If they don't, again, interesting things. Specifically if they all conform like obedient little electors then it shows that whatever constitutional protection that the electoral college was supposed to function as is dead, and Trump can do his thing with impunity. If not, if they show a bit of spine then even if Trump is elected it shows that he can expect opposition in the future.

Yep. Technically. Improbable though. It's as certain as the ANC not doing the right thing against Jacob Zuma no matter what new slimy thing emerges about him(to give you an example you might be all too familiar with).

David Axelrod has his own take on why he'd rather they don't vote against Trump. I find this to be a common sentiment. The question, not being asked enough in tandem with this sentiment, is why then have it at all? When would it ever be right to overturn such an outcome? Why have electors at all? Why not just use a token for each elector instead?

"Look, Alexander Hamilton conceived of the Electoral College and the founding fathers as a buffer against democracy run amok, as a safe guard against someone who was unsuited for the office to take the office. But it's never been used in the history of our republic,” Axelrod said Monday morning on CNN’s “New Day.” “To have it happen now, despite the fact that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and all that's swirling around with Russia and so on, I believe would split the country apart in a really destructive way and it would set this mad cycle in which every election the electoral college vote would be in question.”

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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