The End of The Death Penalty in America
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02-04-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
And then this happened. Deep in the Heart of Texas? Really?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/lethal-...ecy-n69906

FEDERAL JUDGE ORDERS MORATORIUM ON TEXAS EXECUTIONS.

A federal judge has halted two Texas executions until state officials reveal where they got the drugs for the lethal injections — the latest skirmish in a nationwide battle over secrecy and capital punishment.

Tommy Lynn Sells, who was convicted of the 1999 stabbing murder of a 13-year-old girl and who allegedly confessed to many other slayings, was scheduled for a Thursday execution. Rapist-murderer Ramiro Hernandez Llanas was scheduled to die next week.

But the Texas Department of Criminal Justice's refusal to disclose which compounding pharmacy provided the lethal doses of pentobarbital has put those plans on hold.

U.S. District Judge Vanessa Gilmore issued a temporary injunction Wednesday stopping both executions until the state gives its supplier's name to the condemned men's attorneys.

"While the state has provided plaintiffs information about the process by which they will be executed, it has masked information about the product that will kill them," Gilmore wrote.

Texas jailers argued they need to keep the name of the drug connection secret to protect them from threats and harassment — even though the state's own attorney general ruled in 2011 that the details should be public and a state judge ruled last week that they could be released under a protective order.

Defense lawyers say they must know the origin of the execution drugs so they can investigate their quality and ensure they would not cause an excruciating death in violation of the constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment.

Gilmore's order "honors and reflects the crucial importance of transparency in the execution process," Sells' and Llanas' lawyers, Maurie Levin and Jonathan Ross, said in a statement.

"We hope that the Texas Department of Criminal Justice will finally decide to comply with the law, and cease attempting to shroud in secrecy one aspect of their job that, above all others, should be conducted in the light of day."

The prison agency had no immediate comment, but Levin said the state has already given notice that it intends to appeal to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

The battle over pharmacy confidentiality has been playing out in states across the country since drug manufacturers stopped selling their wares for executions, causing a nationwide shortage.

Judges in some states have allowed executions to go forward, while others have raised concerns.

So far, the U.S. Supreme Court has not stopped a lethal injection over the issue, though four of the nine justices indicated they would have temporarily halted the Missouri execution of kidnapper, murderer and rapist Jeffrey Ferguson last week.

Mississippi wanted to execute Michelle Byrom, on death row after being convicted in the murder-for-hire of her abusive husband, last week. But before the courts could even weigh in on her challenge to the state's drug-secrecy policy, an appeals panel granted her a new trial.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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02-04-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(04-03-2014 03:01 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Societies without a death penalty are uncivilized.

Facepalm

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02-04-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
I'm on the fence when it comes to capital punishment...

I'm generally opposed to it, but there are certain cases where I nothing else seems like justice.

But, I know I wouldn't want to be the guy who does the deed, so I can't really expect someone to do it on my behalf...

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02-04-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(02-04-2014 01:00 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 03:01 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Societies without a death penalty are uncivilized.

Facepalm

No, EK.

Obviously, Toadaly is completely correct; I mean, just look at how uncivilised Australia is! I mean, what with all our shooti... oh wait... umm... And our sky-rocketing crime ra.. crap that's not right either...

Um...

Shit.

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02-04-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(02-04-2014 01:00 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 03:01 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Societies without a death penalty are uncivilized.

Facepalm

Don't worry he backed that assertion up with an appeal to emotion and refused to look at any evidence. Just like a good libertarian.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-04-2014, 09:38 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(02-04-2014 02:38 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 01:00 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Facepalm

Don't worry he backed that assertion up with an appeal to emotion and refused to look at any evidence. Just like a good libertarian.

What, like that other liberal democracies of the 'West' all have the same or much better crime rates, and many of them do so without a death penalty? While 'correlation is not causation', it is however good evidence that the death penalty is not a requirement of a peaceful society.

That no justice system is perfect, and until we can develop one that is, innocent and wrongly convicted people will be needlessly executed by the state.

This is not to say that I'm a pacifist or against all killing in all cases. There is a time and place for war (as a last resort, unless it's forced upon you), and you can make arguments for self defense from an imminent threat. But once a person has been arrested and has already been removed from society at large? What more does killing that person accomplish? That person is no longer a threat to society, they are already separated from it. Executing them feeds into a desire for retribution and revenge; some of our basest instincts. It's born of the same primitive mentality and desires that makes 'an eye for an eye' sounds like a good idea.

Best case scenario? The person convicted really did commit the crime they were executed for, and the victims feel a bit of catharsis. They are executed after wasting plenty of state time and money trying to appeal the death sentence, making killing them far more expensive then just letting them sit in prison. It's a lot of wasted time, effort, and energy, for a little emotional comfort.

Worst case scenario is you execute the wrong person, and this is proved by later evidence (and we know this has already happened before, and will happen again). You've now killed an innocent in the name of the state, which means that we are all responsible for that mistake. The victims who originally felt catharsis, if they have any humanity, should now feel crushing guilt. The real perpetrator has been free to commit other crimes while someone else was killed for theirs. We've now wasted a lot of time, effort, and energy in killing an innocent while the real perpetrator has gone free.

The death penalty is a waste of resources, and even more emotionally draining when it goes wrong. It's implementation guarantees that innocents will be executed by the state, which means that the death of innocent people is sanctioned by us all by proxy. We know from various examples across the globe, that the threat of the death penalty is not required for a low crime rate and a civilized society.

In light of all this, I cannot in good consciousness, support the state sanctioned killing of prisoners. There is no justice system perfect enough, no appeal to emotion strong enough, to ever justify it's implementation.

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02-04-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Yep, they should end the death penalty.
Criminals should be made to suffer on this planet just like the rest of us! Sleepy

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02-04-2014, 10:39 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Question. If America was to change the method of execution to crucifixion, do you think the death penalty would continue?

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02-04-2014, 11:59 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(02-04-2014 10:39 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Question. If America was to change the method of execution to crucifixion, do you think the death penalty would continue?

Well, considering that it's implementation is left up to the individual states so long as they remain within the Constitution, the only reason some of them haven't yet is because of said Constitution. Crucifixion would violate that whole 'cruel and unusual punishment' bit, although how any other execution gets around this is beyond me.

Ironically one of the only states that still employs firing squads is Utah, and it's explicitly because of the Mormon belief that atonement requires the spilling of blood. Dodgy

How in the fucking hell is this civilized again? Facepalm

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03-04-2014, 06:50 AM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(02-04-2014 10:39 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Question. If America was to change the method of execution to crucifixion, do you think the death penalty would continue?

It would never be allowed as it is a direct violation of the Eigth Amendment and would quickly be struck down by the federal courts.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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