The End of The Death Penalty in America
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08-02-2014, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 01:46 PM by Deerdra.)
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(05-02-2014 06:54 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I wonder if, like the recent upheavals in areas like legalizing gay marriage or recreational drugs, the death penalty may finally die in the US. It is still very popular in the southeastern states and the majority of American support the death penalty, but I can't help thinking we may see the end of it by 2020.

I suspect that if/when the death penalty dies, it won't be just because of it losing popularity, but because warehousing people in prison is more lucrative.

Edited to add link I stumbled upon from clicking on Raw Story in another thread.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/08/hi...e-prisons/
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08-02-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
I am for getting rid of those who deserve it but….what about all those people who are released from death row after evidence came about that they were innocent? How many innocent people have been killed?

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08-02-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(08-02-2014 01:36 PM)avalontheresa Wrote:  I am for getting rid of those who deserve it but….what about all those people who are released from death row after evidence came about that they were innocent? How many innocent people have been killed?

That might be something of a valid case... If the death penalty cared about guilty or not.
The purpose of the death penalty is ultimately a duel deterrent-retribution sort of thing; it is primarily to deter others from committing death penalty-warranting crimes and secondly to act as a form of 'compensation' to the offended and community at large; so long as the accused dies, it's doing it's primary job, albeit ineffectually (cause it has never been effective.) and it brings some form of demented closure to the offended community and the affected people specifically.
Ultimately speaking, actual guilt is irrelevant to it's functions in the immediate sense.

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08-02-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Death penalty is more humane then life sentence so death penalty for the win!
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08-02-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(08-02-2014 01:36 PM)avalontheresa Wrote:  I am for getting rid of those who deserve it but….what about all those people who are released from death row after evidence came about that they were innocent? How many innocent people have been killed?

Easy fix: Don't throw people on death row unless they admit to the crimes or there is 101% undeniable physical evidence. Drinking Beverage

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11-02-2014, 11:02 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/11/justice/wa...e-t&page=2

This just came in from the AP. The Govenor of the State of Washington has declared a moratorium on executions, at least as long as he is in office, citing 'too many doubts' with capital punishment.

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11-02-2014, 11:15 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
That woman, what she did, it makes me sick. People like her make my opinion falter ever so slightly. I think she deserves to be tortured exactly the way she tortured that poor man. But who has the right to do it? Or even just humanely take her life?? Certainly not the government. There is nothing smart about government sactioned murder. I mean I don't want the government to say what I can and cannot do with my body. I don't want then telling me what medical procedures to have, who to have sex with when and how, who I can marry. Why on earth would I want the government to have the power to choose who has the right to live?? If a member of the victim's family were to shoot that woman in the face I would be fine with it. I would hope they wouldn't even be charged with a crime. But as far as the state of Texas putting her to death...no that isn't right.

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11-02-2014, 11:49 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  ....Suzanne Basso...




I have no sympathy for this bitch whatsoever.



Basso, Suzanne Margaret: White; age 44 at crime (DOB: 5-15-1954); murder of white male (her boyfriend) age 59 in Houston on 8-25-1998; sentenced on 9-1-1999.

On 08/26/1998, Basso and co-defendants kidnapped a 59-year old retarded white male and intentionally caused his death by beating him with belts, baseball bats, steel-toed boots, hands, and feet. Basso was the leader of the group and encouraged all the co-defendants to abuse the victim.

The murder was committed for proceeds from an insurance policy on the victim (in which Basso was named the beneficiary) as well as other assets in which Basso was named heir.

Basso had wooed the victim into leaving his family and friends in New Jersey and moving to Texas, under the guise that she would marry him. The victim was found in a ditch with injuries so horrendous that the body was unrecognizable.

...



FACTS OF THE CASE

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, described the murder as follows (citations omitted):

Basso met 59-year-old Louis “Buddy” Musso at a church carnival in New Jersey in July 1997. Musso was mentally retarded, but lived independently, held a job at a grocery store, and managed his own financial affairs. His niece described him as having the mind of a child, “I would say probably somewhere between 7 and 10 years [old].”

In June 1998, Musso left New Jersey to live with Basso in Jacinto City, Texas. Shortly after Musso moved in with Basso, Al Becker, Musso’s social security representative payee and friend of 20 years, began having trouble contacting Musso. Becker had numerous phone conversations with Basso, but Basso eventually refused to let Becker talk to Musso. Concerned about Musso’s well-being, Becker sought assistance from various Texas state agencies, but could not get any information about Musso’s situation.

In July 1998, Basso unsuccessfully attempted to designate herself as representative payee of Musso’s social security benefits. She was named beneficiary on an application for life insurance on Musso, describing herself as Musso’s “wife to be.” After Musso’s death, police found certificates of insurance for policies in Musso’s name, including one that provided for payment of $65,000 in the event Musso died as the result of a violent crime. Police also discovered a document titled Musso’s “Last Will and Testament,” which purported to leave Musso’s entire estate to Basso while “no one else [was] to get a cent.”

The Medical Examiner discovered a large number of injuries to Musso’s body and could not count the hundreds of bruises covering Musso from head to toe. There were contusions of different ages on his body. The examiner opined that they were inflicted over a period of five days leading up to Musso’s death. The palms of Musso’s hands and soles of his feet were bruised, and his back and buttocks had lash marks, indicating that he was whipped. He had a severely blackened eye resulting from a hinge fracture to his skull, probably caused by a blow to the back of his head. Musso sustained broken bones in his nose and ribs. He had burn marks on his back, possibly from cigarettes or a hot poker.

The Medical Examiner noted skin abrasions possibly attributable to contact with a cleaning solution or scrub brush. The Medical Examiner concluded that Musso died from a skull fracture caused by an unknown object which left a large X-shaped laceration in Musso’s scalp. Musso suffered 18 or 19 blows to the head.

Approximately one to two weeks before the murder, witnesses saw Musso with bruises and black eyes. Basso told people that Musso was beaten up by some Mexicans. The evening before Musso’s body was found, Basso began an elaborate attempt to establish a story that Musso ran away. She made several phone calls to people, including Musso’s niece and local police, expressing concern about Musso’s whereabouts. Basso claimed that Musso ran away with a “little Mexican lady” he met at a laundromat, and [Basso] claimed to be worried about him.

In a written statement to the police, Basso stated that she knew that her son and several friends beat and abused Musso for at least a full day before his death, and that she also beat Musso. She confessed to driving a car belonging to Bernice Ahrens, with Musso’s body in the trunk, to the site where J.D. O’Malley, who is Basso’s son, Terrence Singleton, and Craig Ahrens dumped the body. Craig Ahrens is the son of Basso’s friend, Bernice Ahrens, and Singleton was Craig’s best friend and was engaged to Craig’s sister, Hope Ahrens. Basso also admitted driving the car to a dumpster where the others disposed of additional incriminating evidence, including bloody clothes and rubber gloves.

The police found these items as a result of O’Malley’s confession. Hope Ahrens testified that, in August 1998, Basso and O’Malley brought Musso to the apartment shared by the three Ahrenses and Singleton. Musso had two black eyes, which he claimed he got when some Mexicans beat him up as he went for a walk. After arriving at the apartment, Basso ordered Musso to stay on a red and blue mat. Sometime she had him on his hands and knees, and sometimes just on his knees. Most of the time, the mat was in a hallway in the apartment. Ahrens identified Musso’s shirt. When offered in evidence, the shirt was bloody, the collar was ripped, and the buttons were torn off. Ahrens testified that it was buttoned and was not bloody when Musso first arrived at the apartment. At some point during the weekend, Basso and O’Malley began beating Musso. Basso slapped him, and O’Malley kicked him repeatedly while wearing boots. Musso asked O’Malley to stop. When O’Malley did stop, Basso asked him why he stopped. O’Malley stated that he was tired and wanted to remove his boots. Ahrens also testified that Basso hit Musso on the back … with a baseball bat, hit him with a belt, and a vacuum cleaner, and jumped on him.

Other testimony established that Basso weighed about 300 pounds at the time. When Basso went to work, she instructed O’Malley to watch the others and make sure they did not leave the apartment or use the phone. O’Malley refused Musso’s requests to get off the mat. When Musso tried to get off the mat, O’Malley hit him. After Musso sustained injuries from the beating, O’Malley took him into the bathroom and bathed him with bleach, Comet and Pine Sol, using a wire brush to scrub Musso’s skin. At some point, Musso asked Basso to call an ambulance for him, but she refused. Ahrens testified that Musso was moving very slowly and was clearly in pain from the beatings.

The jury found Basso guilty of capital murder for murdering Musso during the course or kidnapping or attempting to kidnap him, and for remuneration or the promise of remuneration in the form of insurance proceeds.

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11-02-2014, 11:59 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 12:09 AM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(06-02-2014 10:34 AM)JAH Wrote:  I will admit to being opposed to the death penalty for semi moralistic grounds. I find it barbaric and smacking of the sort of vengeful wrath that many here condemn the old testament god for.

There are however two very practical reasons why all, even those who think the death penalty is appropriate should oppose it.

The application of the death penalty is spotty at best. In general there is a much higher correlation between the quality of the legal consul the accused received and the sentence of death, than the nature of the crime committed. As a consequence far more poor people are sentenced to death. Sometimes the poor receive such poor consul that they are sentenced to death when the evidence does not support them even being convicted in the first place.

The cost of sentencing someone to death and actually carrying it out far exceeds life without parole. Between mandatory appeals and providing lawyers, non mandatory appeals brought by the accused and so on people are far more likely to die on death row than to be executed. At least that is the case in California. The cost of all these appeals adds up to be far more than the cost of life without parole.

I certainly understand the feeling of closure that someone who was personally involved with a victim could get when the perpetrator is executed. Society as a whole must look at the unfairness and the cost.

Sums my feelings rather well; my main problems with the death penalty are inconsistent application and costs more so than morality. I have mixed feelings about it morally, I think we as humans find revenge for unspeakable, inexcusably barbaric breaches of our bodies and lives to be our natural instinct; to want compensation when the crime committed was simply too awful for any reasonable, empathetic human being to commit.

Granted, I realize it's not our most admirable trait, but it is a very human and understandable one. I would not personally cast judgement on a parent that killed somebody that committed wanton grave injury to their child or a rape victim castrating their rapist. I realize eye for an eye mentality can lead to more problems than it solves under certain circumstances, but I do not condemn it as a whole as some people seem to. I feel it simply appeals too much to our basic, primal nature to disregard entirely, but it should only be resorted to in the most extreme of circumstances.

Oh, and another potential problem is the fact that capital punishment is authorized by governments. The application of the death penalty can only be as good as the government which hands it out; in authoritarian regimes, death penalties tend to be the product of quicker, cheaper, more unjust trials and the victims tend to be political dissidents rather than murders and the like.

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12-02-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(11-02-2014 11:49 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  ....Suzanne Basso...




I have no sympathy for this bitch whatsoever.



Basso, Suzanne Margaret: White; age 44 at crime (DOB: 5-15-1954); murder of white male (her boyfriend) age 59 in Houston on 8-25-1998; sentenced on 9-1-1999.

On 08/26/1998, Basso and co-defendants kidnapped a 59-year old retarded white male and intentionally caused his death by beating him with belts, baseball bats, steel-toed boots, hands, and feet. Basso was the leader of the group and encouraged all the co-defendants to abuse the victim.

The murder was committed for proceeds from an insurance policy on the victim (in which Basso was named the beneficiary) as well as other assets in which Basso was named heir.

Basso had wooed the victim into leaving his family and friends in New Jersey and moving to Texas, under the guise that she would marry him. The victim was found in a ditch with injuries so horrendous that the body was unrecognizable.

...



FACTS OF THE CASE

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, described the murder as follows (citations omitted):

Basso met 59-year-old Louis “Buddy” Musso at a church carnival in New Jersey in July 1997. Musso was mentally retarded, but lived independently, held a job at a grocery store, and managed his own financial affairs. His niece described him as having the mind of a child, “I would say probably somewhere between 7 and 10 years [old].”

In June 1998, Musso left New Jersey to live with Basso in Jacinto City, Texas. Shortly after Musso moved in with Basso, Al Becker, Musso’s social security representative payee and friend of 20 years, began having trouble contacting Musso. Becker had numerous phone conversations with Basso, but Basso eventually refused to let Becker talk to Musso. Concerned about Musso’s well-being, Becker sought assistance from various Texas state agencies, but could not get any information about Musso’s situation.

In July 1998, Basso unsuccessfully attempted to designate herself as representative payee of Musso’s social security benefits. She was named beneficiary on an application for life insurance on Musso, describing herself as Musso’s “wife to be.” After Musso’s death, police found certificates of insurance for policies in Musso’s name, including one that provided for payment of $65,000 in the event Musso died as the result of a violent crime. Police also discovered a document titled Musso’s “Last Will and Testament,” which purported to leave Musso’s entire estate to Basso while “no one else [was] to get a cent.”

The Medical Examiner discovered a large number of injuries to Musso’s body and could not count the hundreds of bruises covering Musso from head to toe. There were contusions of different ages on his body. The examiner opined that they were inflicted over a period of five days leading up to Musso’s death. The palms of Musso’s hands and soles of his feet were bruised, and his back and buttocks had lash marks, indicating that he was whipped. He had a severely blackened eye resulting from a hinge fracture to his skull, probably caused by a blow to the back of his head. Musso sustained broken bones in his nose and ribs. He had burn marks on his back, possibly from cigarettes or a hot poker.

The Medical Examiner noted skin abrasions possibly attributable to contact with a cleaning solution or scrub brush. The Medical Examiner concluded that Musso died from a skull fracture caused by an unknown object which left a large X-shaped laceration in Musso’s scalp. Musso suffered 18 or 19 blows to the head.

Approximately one to two weeks before the murder, witnesses saw Musso with bruises and black eyes. Basso told people that Musso was beaten up by some Mexicans. The evening before Musso’s body was found, Basso began an elaborate attempt to establish a story that Musso ran away. She made several phone calls to people, including Musso’s niece and local police, expressing concern about Musso’s whereabouts. Basso claimed that Musso ran away with a “little Mexican lady” he met at a laundromat, and [Basso] claimed to be worried about him.

In a written statement to the police, Basso stated that she knew that her son and several friends beat and abused Musso for at least a full day before his death, and that she also beat Musso. She confessed to driving a car belonging to Bernice Ahrens, with Musso’s body in the trunk, to the site where J.D. O’Malley, who is Basso’s son, Terrence Singleton, and Craig Ahrens dumped the body. Craig Ahrens is the son of Basso’s friend, Bernice Ahrens, and Singleton was Craig’s best friend and was engaged to Craig’s sister, Hope Ahrens. Basso also admitted driving the car to a dumpster where the others disposed of additional incriminating evidence, including bloody clothes and rubber gloves.

The police found these items as a result of O’Malley’s confession. Hope Ahrens testified that, in August 1998, Basso and O’Malley brought Musso to the apartment shared by the three Ahrenses and Singleton. Musso had two black eyes, which he claimed he got when some Mexicans beat him up as he went for a walk. After arriving at the apartment, Basso ordered Musso to stay on a red and blue mat. Sometime she had him on his hands and knees, and sometimes just on his knees. Most of the time, the mat was in a hallway in the apartment. Ahrens identified Musso’s shirt. When offered in evidence, the shirt was bloody, the collar was ripped, and the buttons were torn off. Ahrens testified that it was buttoned and was not bloody when Musso first arrived at the apartment. At some point during the weekend, Basso and O’Malley began beating Musso. Basso slapped him, and O’Malley kicked him repeatedly while wearing boots. Musso asked O’Malley to stop. When O’Malley did stop, Basso asked him why he stopped. O’Malley stated that he was tired and wanted to remove his boots. Ahrens also testified that Basso hit Musso on the back … with a baseball bat, hit him with a belt, and a vacuum cleaner, and jumped on him.

Other testimony established that Basso weighed about 300 pounds at the time. When Basso went to work, she instructed O’Malley to watch the others and make sure they did not leave the apartment or use the phone. O’Malley refused Musso’s requests to get off the mat. When Musso tried to get off the mat, O’Malley hit him. After Musso sustained injuries from the beating, O’Malley took him into the bathroom and bathed him with bleach, Comet and Pine Sol, using a wire brush to scrub Musso’s skin. At some point, Musso asked Basso to call an ambulance for him, but she refused. Ahrens testified that Musso was moving very slowly and was clearly in pain from the beatings.

The jury found Basso guilty of capital murder for murdering Musso during the course or kidnapping or attempting to kidnap him, and for remuneration or the promise of remuneration in the form of insurance proceeds.

Oh, I'm well aware of Basso and her crimes that put her on death row. And I won't dispute it: she deserved to die for what she did.

This thread is more on the topic of the death penalty coming to an end in this country versus whether someone does or does not deserve the death penalty. In the future, please remain on topic. Thanks.

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