The End of The Death Penalty in America
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12-02-2014, 12:34 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(12-02-2014 11:38 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 11:21 AM)toadaly Wrote:  ...then it should be easy to find one that doesn't have obvious bias.

Prove your accusation of there being a bias.

In those quoted in this thread, I already did.

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18-02-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Again, another headline.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/okla...ion-n32451

An Oklahoma pharmacy has agreed not to provide Missouri with a made-to-order drug for an inmate's execution.

Court documents filed Monday show that death row inmate Michael Taylor has reached an agreement with The Apothecary Shoppe.

According to the documents, the Tulsa pharmacy will not prepare or provide pentobarbital or any other drug for use in Taylor's execution. The documents ask a judge to dismiss the case.

Taylor's attorney, Mat Hellman, says the pharmacy has not already provided any such drug to the Missouri Department of Corrections for Michael's execution.

Taylor's execution is scheduled for Feb. 26. He pleaded guilty to abducting, raping and stabbing to death a 15-year-old Kansas City girl in 1989.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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19-02-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Serious crimes deserve a serious punishment, death is a fitting punishment for the worst of the worst.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus
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19-02-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(19-02-2014 01:41 PM)Atheist Razor Wrote:  Serious crimes deserve a serious punishment, death is a fitting punishment for the worst of the worst.

While I agree from an ethical perspective, from a practical perspective, I simply don't trust the justice system not to execute the innocent. Some object to it from a cost perspective as well, but when you consider how much money our governments blow on the stupidest crap, I don't see this as a real concern at present.

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19-02-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(05-02-2014 06:54 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Huntsville, TX, is a sleepy town about 80 miles north of Houston. It's also America's capital of capital punishment. Tonight at 6:00pm Central time, a woman named Suzanne Basso will be executed there by lethal injection, making her the 512th person to die at the hands of the state of Texas since Gregg v Georgia reinstated legal executions in this country. There isn't much fanfare about it. Maybe a small group of protestors from Amnesty Intl or some other anti death penalty group show up with signs or a candlelight vigil. But otherwise just another night for the people of Huntsville and the staff of the red brick state prison in the center of town.

The thing is, Basso's execution may be one of the final ones to take place in the United States. The state is running short of the lethal drugs required for the executions. Anti Death Penalty Groups as well as the European Union's prohibition on capital punishment have pressured the pharmaceutical manufacturers of the drugs sodium thiopentol and pentabarbitol to refuse sale of the chemical to American prisons if they intend to use them in lethal injections. With the supply of the deadly drugs running short, states have become desperate for options to carry out executions which have been scheduled. Ohio recently went to a controversial new drug cocktail of midazolam, a sedative, and hydromorphone, an analgesic. This drug mixture was used on a prisoner named Dennis McGuire with horrible results. McGuire gasped, chocked, gagged, and convulsed for 25 minutes before he finally died. I doubt they will try such a drug combination like that again.

Some states are considering returning to older, more antiquated methods of execution. Their old electric chairs being pressed into service again as well as gas chambers - even talk of firing squads or guillotines in Missouri.

This also comes at a time when public support for the death penalty in the US is waning. States are also handing out fewer death sentences and carrying out fewer executions. In 1999, 99 people were executed in the US. Only 30 people were executed in 2013. This may be cyclic; it was like this in the 1960s and people felt the death penalty would disappear. But by the 1980s executions had resumed in the US again.

A number of states have recently abolished the death penalty as well. New Jersey and New Mexico recently signed bills outlawing it and Illinois has a moratorium on executions pending some legal challenges to the law.

I wonder if, like the recent upheavals in areas like legalizing gay marriage or recreational drugs, the death penalty may finally die in the US. It is still very popular in the southeastern states and the majority of American support the death penalty, but I can't help thinking we may see the end of it by 2020.

I hope the death penalty does end by 2020 or even sooner than that. I know people that get sentenced to death do so because they've committed horrible crimes, but I mean like damn what in the world will killing them accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You might as well just leave them in the bin for the rest of their lives. Who knows, maybe they can change or maybe even get to a point where they can make peace with themselves. Killing a person for committing a crime takes this possibility away from them. Executing a person for committing a crime doesn't make us any better than they are. When you become like those your trying to defeat that's when you lose your war against them. Lets show them that we are better than that.
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19-02-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(19-02-2014 05:31 PM)max_payne Wrote:  I know people that get sentenced to death do so because they've committed horrible crimes, but I mean like damn what in the world will killing them accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You might as well just leave them in the bin for the rest of their lives.

Surrounded by their crime scene and victim's autopsy photos. Add a couple of jailhouse beatings and a few anal rapes every now and then and that feels like a more proper punishment to me. Thumbsup

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19-02-2014, 08:34 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(19-02-2014 04:49 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 01:41 PM)Atheist Razor Wrote:  Serious crimes deserve a serious punishment, death is a fitting punishment for the worst of the worst.

While I agree from an ethical perspective, from a practical perspective, I simply don't trust the justice system not to execute the innocent. Some object to it from a cost perspective as well, but when you consider how much money our governments blow on the stupidest crap, I don't see this as a real concern at present.

To expect 100% accuracy all the time is hardly a realistic expectation, error is inherent in any system of organization. Execution, if done correctly would seem to be the most cost effective method of dispensing justice.

Also, I question the wisdom of a system that would knowingly put it's own citizens in danger by releasing dangerous criminals back into the community with no economic or social stability and not expect them to re-offend.

I just don't see a valid, practical reason why you would reject this method. Perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate further?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus
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19-02-2014, 08:50 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Where I live, the death penalty was banned centuries ago, and very few people are incarcerated for life. Does punishment really deters violent crimes? I doubt it. The capital punishment is more an act of vengeance, but after 10 or more years, i really don't see the point. If a family member would be a murder victim, I'll hate to wait so long for closure. On the other hand, I would have no problem in killing with my bare hands someone who's threatening me or someone else.

The real gospel: Jesus went rogue and preached love instead of genocide. God got angry and went old testament style on Jesus's ass, setting him up to be tortured and killed. The End.
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19-02-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
Quote:I know people that get sentenced to death do so because they've committed horrible crimes, but I mean like damn what in the world will killing them accomplish? Absolutely nothing.

Executing them safeguards the well being of the citizenry, would you prefer we release them to re-offend? Execution is the most efficient means of dealing with a threat.

Although I generally loathe Joseph Stalin he was accurate when he stated that death solves all problems - no man, no problem.


Quote:You might as well just leave them in the bin for the rest of their lives. Who knows, maybe they can change or maybe even get to a point where they can make peace with themselves.

Which entirely defeats the purpose of punishment, it's not about what is in the best interest of the criminal. I don't want a serial murderer in jail for the rest of his/her life, especially a jail that allows them to order takeout from nearby restaurants if they are "good".

They deserve the same consideration they give to their victims, little to none.

Quote:Executing a person for committing a crime doesn't make us any better than they are. When you become like those your trying to defeat that's when you lose your war against them. Lets show them that we are better than that.

In my experience, comparing apples to oranges does not result in a valid conclusion being reached. There is a significant difference between those who commit a crime, and those who dispense justice to an individual for that crime.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus
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19-02-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: The End of The Death Penalty in America
(19-02-2014 08:50 PM)Alexandro Wrote:  Where I live, the death penalty was banned centuries ago, and very few people are incarcerated for life. Does punishment really deters violent crimes? I doubt it. The capital punishment is more an act of vengeance, but after 10 or more years, i really don't see the point. If a family member would be a murder victim, I'll hate to wait so long for closure. On the other hand, I would have no problem in killing with my bare hands someone who's threatening me or someone else.

I agree, the death penalty is not an effective tool for deterrence. That said, it is very effective in removing any possibility of release and recidivism. The death penalty has been banned where I live as well.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus
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