The European Union UK Referendum
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01-06-2016, 05:58 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
Although I haven't really looked into this, my gut tells me the UK should stay part of the EU.

Moreover, my daughter, who is 3 weeks shy of an MPhil in Politics from Oxford, says the UK should stay part of Europe.
Pretty sure she's discussed this ad nauseum so I'll defer to her on this one, Smartass

Unfortunately, her tuition is all paid up so this uncertainty, and the corresponding drop in the British pound, comes too late for us Weeping

Not sure how I feel about Scotland though.

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01-06-2016, 06:07 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-06-2016 05:15 PM)Marozz Wrote:  Living in the Republic of Ireland we have a vested interest in the upcoming referendum. It would be better for us if the UK remained in the EU. They are one of out biggest trading partners. We are the only country in Europe that shares a land border with the UK. Being members of the EU has made this border less contentious. We have free movement, trade and more co-operation between North and South, much to the dismay of those fucking Unionist, protestant politicians. They are voting to get out of Europe. They are getting anxious with the fact that things are getting to cozy with the republic. They want that silly border strengthened. Selfish bastards. On the funny side, if they get their wish the farmers up north will lose their EU subsidies so London will have to foot the bill.

Lol, bro, where do you think those subsidies come from?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi...udget.html

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02-06-2016, 12:02 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-06-2016 06:07 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Lol, bro, where do you think those subsidies come from?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi...udget.html

An unexpectedly balanced article from the telegraph Blink Wow.

Thing that caught my eye was this:
Quote: Taking account of the money that comes back and the aid spending, Britain last year gave almost £6.5 billion to the EU that would otherwise not have been paid out if we were not members of the club. That’s almost £18 million a day.

EU supporters say that money is more than worth it, since it is prerequisite of membership and thus access to the single market, which they say profits the UK by far more than £6.5 billion.

Leave campaigners argue that outside the EU, Britain could still negotiate access to the single market while keeping some or all of that membership money.

So they'd rather leave and put themselves in a position of begging to have access to the single market for free, than do the negotiations first? Laughat On the plus side, it's about as rational as any politics I've ever seen.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-06-2016, 03:05 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 12:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 06:07 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Lol, bro, where do you think those subsidies come from?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi...udget.html

An unexpectedly balanced article from the telegraph Blink Wow.

Thing that caught my eye was this:
Quote: Taking account of the money that comes back and the aid spending, Britain last year gave almost £6.5 billion to the EU that would otherwise not have been paid out if we were not members of the club. That’s almost £18 million a day.

EU supporters say that money is more than worth it, since it is prerequisite of membership and thus access to the single market, which they say profits the UK by far more than £6.5 billion.

Leave campaigners argue that outside the EU, Britain could still negotiate access to the single market while keeping some or all of that membership money.

So they'd rather leave and put themselves in a position of begging to have access to the single market for free, than do the negotiations first? Laughat On the plus side, it's about as rational as any politics I've ever seen.
Britain wouldn`t need to beg for the access to EU market. Britain is importing much more then it is exporting. EU need Britain much more then Britain needs EU in trading sense. What do you think, that Mercedes will stop selling cars to Brits?

More importantly , you absolutely don`t need to be a part of EU to trade with EU countries.

People seem to forget that countries like Switzerland and Norway are not the part of EU and they have no problem trading with EU countries.
In fact Switzerland is an exporting giant compared to UK , they have ~ 50 billion euro surplus in trade with the EU per year, while UK has a huge deficit.
Not to mention China and US , who are the biggest trading partners with EU.
Britain will be able to trade with EU just like any other country can.

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02-06-2016, 03:11 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 03:17 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-06-2016 01:47 AM)bemore Wrote:  Sooooo..... on the 23rd June the UK gets to vote if they should stay in the European Union or to leave it.

Whilst I am interested in everybodies opinion I feel I am lacking an opinion from those outside of the UK, from most of you guys and gals.

So as outsiders looking in, whats your take on it?

I'll vote for which ever option ultimately hurts the Crown most in the long run.
Because I'm a dick.

Seriously though, what's the real impacts yea or nay? Not arguments, I mean what will the rhetoric-free impacts of leaving or staying be?

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02-06-2016, 03:34 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 03:05 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 12:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  An unexpectedly balanced article from the telegraph Blink Wow.

Thing that caught my eye was this:

So they'd rather leave and put themselves in a position of begging to have access to the single market for free, than do the negotiations first? Laughat On the plus side, it's about as rational as any politics I've ever seen.
Britain wouldn`t need to beg for the access to EU market. Britain is importing much more then it is exporting. EU need Britain much more then Britain needs EU in trading sense. What do you think, that Mercedes will stop selling cars to Brits?

More importantly , you absolutely don`t need to be a part of EU to trade with EU countries.

People seem to forget that countries like Switzerland and Norway are not the part of EU and they have no problem trading with EU countries.
In fact Switzerland is an exporting giant compared to UK , they have ~ 50 billion euro surplus in trade with the EU per year, while UK has a huge deficit.
Not to mention China and US , who are the biggest trading partners with EU.
Britain will be able to trade with EU just like any other country can.

You miss the very important point that UK's trade agreements with China and the USA, not to mention every other non-EU nation are actually EU trade agreements. The UK does not have meaningful bilateral trade agreements with anyone. So the UK would be walking away from that and UK's non-EU trading partners have already indicated they'd be in no particular hurry to negotiate new agreements.

Switzerland and Norway are not part of the EU, you're right, but both have to submit to EU rules and regulations without any say in their development or implementation. Norway's Prime Minister supports UK's continued membership of the EU, saying the Norwegian model won't work for Britain. Norway has to effectively implement all EU rules, has no say in how they are made, and still contributes a significant amount of money to the EU budget.

You don't have to be in the EU to trade with EU countries, but you either face tarrifs on your exports to the EU or you have to pay for the privilege of sitting at the EU table with no influence on the rules and the way the game is run.

The entire referendum is about a 30 year internal argument within the governing Tory party. The Labour Party is broadly pro-EU. The Liberal Democrats are very pro-EU. The Scottish Nationalists are very pro-EU. The Welsh Nationalists are very pro-EU.

The Tory leadership is now splintered and bitterly divided on the issue.

If the vote is to remain in the EU, it may well implode with its in-fighting. If the vote is to leave, then the same may happen but we'll also see the Scottish Nationalists demanding a re-run of the independence referendum and the likely break-up of the UK.

And all because some toff-Tories want to argue who's better at telling lies.

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02-06-2016, 04:34 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 11:53 AM by bemore.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-06-2016 03:53 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 09:41 AM)bemore Wrote:  Democracy and sovereignty is occasionaly mentioned but probably the least spoken about. The UK originally signed up to a common market in the 70s and now we are ruled by a system that can overide our governments, a system that very little people know, nor actually care about, that regulates our day to day lifes in many small ways.

This is the most important issue, you are now governed by people who you didn't elect and who you have no power to remove from office. Think about that for a moment.

Pat Condell recently focused on this and your right, it is an important question which is being overlooked....





(02-06-2016 03:34 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  You don't have to be in the EU to trade with EU countries, but you either face tarrifs on your exports to the EU or you have to pay for the privilege of sitting at the EU table with no influence on the rules and the way the game is run.

I dont think Ireland had much influence with the lisbon treaty.....

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02-06-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
Quote:You miss the very important point that UK's trade agreements with China and the USA, not to mention every other non-EU nation are actually EU trade agreements. The UK does not have meaningful bilateral trade agreements with anyone. So the UK would be walking away from that and UK's non-EU trading partners have already indicated they'd be in no particular hurry to negotiate new agreements.

Oh yeah, they will be in a big hurry to negotiate new agreements. You are forgetting that Britain is importing much more then it is exporting. Stopping the trade would hurt those countries and the EU more then it would hurt Britain.
The same is true for tariffs , any tariffs imposed will benefit Britain more then EU or any other countries trading with Britain. Because Britain imports more it will charge more in tariffs for incoming goods then it will have to pay for outcoming.
And , btw, you don`t really need trading agreements to trade.

And Britain has very little influence on laws passed in the EU as it is, it has been fairly unsuccessful in passing or opposing the EU laws.

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02-06-2016, 04:54 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 03:05 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 12:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  An unexpectedly balanced article from the telegraph Blink Wow.

Thing that caught my eye was this:

So they'd rather leave and put themselves in a position of begging to have access to the single market for free, than do the negotiations first? Laughat On the plus side, it's about as rational as any politics I've ever seen.
Britain wouldn`t need to beg for the access to EU market. Britain is importing much more then it is exporting. EU need Britain much more then Britain needs EU in trading sense. What do you think, that Mercedes will stop selling cars to Brits?

More importantly , you absolutely don`t need to be a part of EU to trade with EU countries.

People seem to forget that countries like Switzerland and Norway are not the part of EU and they have no problem trading with EU countries.
In fact Switzerland is an exporting giant compared to UK , they have ~ 50 billion euro surplus in trade with the EU per year, while UK has a huge deficit.
Not to mention China and US , who are the biggest trading partners with EU.
Britain will be able to trade with EU just like any other country can.

If Britain leaves the EU first before negotiating their access to the market, they put themselves in a position of absolute weakness. They *need* access to that market on favourable terms which they will not have any leverage to get. Sure, trade won't *stop* but equally, France/Germany/other EU countries aren't going to just sit back and say "well that's peachy, you can have everything the way it was before except now it's free". There will be repercussions - tariffs on British exports to the EU etc, and you know, the Brits won't walk away with a better deal. They'll be *forced* to accept a deal that's at least as bad (although maybe bad in different ways) as the one they've currently got, because it's the only deal they'll be offered.

Brits leave EU.
EU says fuck you, import tax on British goods. Oh by the way, we'll sell you our Mercedes at a higher cost too.
Brits say "Waa! We want fair treatment."
EU says "Who the fuck are you?"

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-06-2016, 05:27 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
I'm voting using my head rather than my heart, head says remain heart says leave, its just that a vote to leave creates too much uncertainty in terms of economics. Get it wrong and the country gets fucked up at least we know where we are being in the EU we do NOT know what will happen if we leave. People on both sides of the debate THINK they know the consequences of leaving but the truth is NO ONE KNOWS and to me that's an unacceptable level of risk.
I use the analogy of a man with a bullet lodged in his body that is not doing him any harm choosing to have a very risky surgery to remove it.
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