The European Union UK Referendum
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24-06-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 07:10 AM)yakherder Wrote:  As a tech/science nerd and Transhumanist wannabe who recognizes the inherent inefficiencies of having so many governments working against each other, I see this as a bad thing. As a cynical bastard who views the world as a giant chess match here only for my entertainment, I recognize the opportunity for the US to gain strategic and economic leverage over both the EU and Great Britain as a result.

Oh well. For better or worse, the aftermath won't be boring.

The world is a giant cinema. Smile

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24-06-2016, 08:30 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 03:20 AM)SYZ Wrote:  ...
I've also read that "the shock referendum result that defied late polls was predicted to hurt the global economy".
...
Lastly, why has this caused global stock exchanges to plummet
...

Because gamblers are anti-social parasites Angel

Consider

If you had a gathering of speculators, would it be called an 'ante-social'?

Big Grin

(24-06-2016 05:13 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I’m glad to see the US isn’t the only one with Red and Blue “States”.

[Image: Screen-Shot-2016-06-24-at-6.50.18-AM.png]

I often have to remind myself that you guys have your red and blue the wrong way round when I watch / read the Murikan news.

When the Rep/Dem parties flipped left/right policies they should have flipped colours as well...

... or changed the words of The Red Flag




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24-06-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 07:04 AM)Banjo Wrote:  What of the Commonwealth games???

They'll only need to build stadiums for around 250 spectators? House all the competitors in 5 hotel rooms? Finish all the events in less than one day? Spend $25.95 on medals? Two-person relays maybe?

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24-06-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
The campaign had little impact on my choice. I decided as far back as 2009 that the EU was a dictatorship in the making, and that we should get out before its too late. I honestly never thought we'd see the day though...

The EU has always been an ideological project. It's highly collectivist (I'm a firm believer in individualism), anti-democratic, and shows incredible contempt for it's own people's views and concerns. If it really were simply intended to allow Europe's nations to trade and cooperate for peace and freedom, it wouldn't need an anthem, a flag, a constitution, or a fucking army. Significantly, it wouldn't just have a forward gear and no reverse... For every problem, crisis, or discrepancy, the EU's solution is always "ever closer integration". They never for a second consider that it may be the wrong direction to go in, and shout down anyone who disagrees. Like all collectivists, they believe the ends justify the means, even if the means involve trampling on democracy, individual rights or national/cultural identity.

I hope this starts the ball rolling, and other European nations will follow us out. Maybe in time, once the present organization is consigned to the dustbin of history, Europe's nations can pull together, and build a new, democratic, open, transparent and less dictatorial union. One that is open to debate and scrutiny by the public, without childishly branding its dissenters as racists, fascists or xenophobes.

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24-06-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 09:22 AM)Sam Wrote:  The campaign had little impact on my choice. I decided as far back as 2009 that the EU was a dictatorship in the making, and that we should get out before its too late. I honestly never thought we'd see the day though...

The EU has always been an ideological project. It's highly collectivist (I'm a firm believer in individualism), anti-democratic, and shows incredible contempt for it's own people's views and concerns. If it really were simply intended to allow Europe's nations to trade and cooperate for peace and freedom, it wouldn't need an anthem, a flag, a constitution, or a fucking army. Significantly, it wouldn't just have a forward gear and no reverse... For every problem, crisis, or discrepancy, the EU's solution is always "ever closer integration". They never for a second consider that it may be the wrong direction to go in, and shout down anyone who disagrees. Like all collectivists, they believe the ends justify the means, even if the means involve trampling on democracy, individual rights or national/cultural identity.

I hope this starts the ball rolling, and other European nations will follow us out. Maybe in time, once the present organization is consigned to the dustbin of history, Europe's nations can pull together, and build a new, democratic, open, transparent and less dictatorial union. One that is open to debate and scrutiny by the public, without childishly branding its dissenters as racists, fascists or xenophobes.

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24-06-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 09:22 AM)Sam Wrote:  ...
Maybe in time, once the present organization is consigned to the dustbin of history, Europe's nations can pull together, and build a new, democratic, open, transparent and less dictatorial union. One that is open to debate and scrutiny by the public,
...

I'm curious what you think that's going to look like.

What are the processes by which it can happen?

With a myriad of overlapping social groupings (states, corporations, religions, ethical affiliations, trade unions etc.) those that can unite best will lead the way, I think.

If it's left to evolutionary forces (competition etc.) do you think that corporatism will steal a march (TTP etc.) and leave others behind?

Are you seeing a future of mutualism and affiliation rather than integration and conformity?

Paint me a picture of what your vision will look like.

Undecided

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24-06-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 07:17 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 07:10 AM)yakherder Wrote:  As a tech/science nerd and Transhumanist wannabe who recognizes the inherent inefficiencies of having so many governments working against each other, I see this as a bad thing. As a cynical bastard who views the world as a giant chess match here only for my entertainment, I recognize the opportunity for the US to gain strategic and economic leverage over both the EU and Great Britain as a result.

Oh well. For better or worse, the aftermath won't be boring.

The world is a giant cinema. Smile

No, more like one unnecessary WWE Jerry Springer episode. Unfortunately Trump is trying to put all that on steroids and throw gas on the fire.

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24-06-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 10:56 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 09:22 AM)Sam Wrote:  ...
Maybe in time, once the present organization is consigned to the dustbin of history, Europe's nations can pull together, and build a new, democratic, open, transparent and less dictatorial union. One that is open to debate and scrutiny by the public,
...

I'm curious what you think that's going to look like.

What are the processes by which it can happen?

With a myriad of overlapping social groupings (states, corporations, religions, ethical affiliations, trade unions etc.) those that can unite best will lead the way, I think.

If it's left to evolutionary forces (competition etc.) do you think that corporatism will steal a march (TTP etc.) and leave others behind?

Are you seeing a future of mutualism and affiliation rather than integration and conformity?

Paint me a picture of what your vision will look like.

Undecided

I have no idea whether its even possible, let alone how it would function... Which is why I left it as a maybe.

I was just making the point that I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of an European Union. I just cannot stomach the union we've got, for the reasons I stated earlier.

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24-06-2016, 03:15 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 08:30 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ... or changed the words of The Red Flag




I sometimes scream-sing that to drown out the news on my commute home.
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24-06-2016, 06:24 PM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2016 06:34 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
The EU is a strange animal indeed as can be seen in these graphs.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/...-nato.html

From another article in the NYT the EU will face very stiff challenges in the near future.

"The result in the so-called Brexit vote presented another stiff challenge to the leaders of the other leading European powers as they confront spreading populist anger. It was seized on by far-right and anti-Brussels parties across Europe, with Marine Le Pen of the National Front in France calling for a “Frexit” referendum and Geert Wilders of the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands calling for a “Nexit.”

I’m old enough to remember a time before there was an EU, the independent countries were being marginalized in the world economy by the growing Asian economies as well as the US economy. Apparently some have a short memory.

PS Come to think about it, maybe the driving force to remain economically competitive obscured the social challenges of bringing together such a disparate group of cultures.

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