The European Union UK Referendum
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25-06-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(25-06-2016 03:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-06-2016 03:03 PM)Marozz Wrote:  Jayus, if this continues we could end up with a united Ireland Tongue

http://www.independent.ie/business/brexi...33135.html

And you drunks ain't got no clue what to do next do you?

Sure we do. Open another bottle and drink some more!

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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25-06-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 08:14 PM)Sam Wrote:  hi
What's pissing me off right now is all the whining losers who want the referendum run again because they didn't win. That's not how democracy works. What kind of world are we living in, where the population of a democratic country, cannot accept a democratic result that didn't go their way? Where's the maturity?

Last night, I was fully expecting a remain win when the polls closed at 10PM... That wasn't the result I had been hoping for, but I was fully prepared to accept it and live with it, because that's democracy... The very thing that made me want out of the EU in the first place. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But then Europhiles have been spoiled by the EU, which often rejects democratic results that don't go their way. They're used to getting their own way.

As far as Scotland is concerned... Two years ago, they voted to stay in the United Kingdom. There were no special conditions attached to that, it was a straight Yes/No to independence, and the majority in Scotland voted No. Therefore, the Scottish people, as UK citizens, of a democratic society, should accept the fact that more UK citizens voted to leave the EU, than to remain. The referendum was carried out UK wide, irrespective of internal borders.

The jocks won't accept it of course Miss poison dwarf will see to that.
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25-06-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(25-06-2016 03:12 PM)Marozz Wrote:  
(25-06-2016 03:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And you drunks ain't got no clue what to do next do you?

Sure we do. Open another bottle and drink some more!

Welp, that's what the stoned out of their gourd drunken Founding Fathers of America did, so at least you got some precedence. Thumbsup

#sigh
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26-06-2016, 02:12 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(25-06-2016 03:25 PM)adey67 Wrote:  The jocks won't accept it of course Miss poison dwarf will see to that.

Oh yeah because it's only been Alex Salmond and NIcola Sturgeon whipping up separatism and everyone else in Scotland hasn't actually wanted independence at all ever. Because yeah that's how grass movements work.
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26-06-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(24-06-2016 08:14 PM)Sam Wrote:  What's pissing me off right now is all the whining losers who want the referendum run again because they didn't win. That's not how democracy works. [...]

The alleged "win" amounted to a mere 3% margin from a population of approximately 53,000,000 which is hardly resounding. More critically, and from a legislative viewpoint, it's not what's termed an absolute majority—which is considered to be around 55% to 60% (varying on country) of all eligible voters.

In this referendum, an estimated 28% of the voting public abstained from voting, and by default, their votes are automatically considered a no to leaving.

If you add this 28% inadvertent "no" vote to the 48% recorded "no" vote, we end up with a true no to leaving vote of 76%, which is obviously an easy overall majority.

So I'd say that the call for a new referendum is perfectly logical, but of course the "yes" voters will, naturally, totally oppose this simply because they know that a new vote would be a convincing "yes" to staying in the EU. As it stands, 7% of those that voted yes to leaving would now—on second thoughts—vote "no" to leaving.

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26-06-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 06:09 AM)SYZ Wrote:  In this referendum, an estimated 28% of the voting public abstained from voting, and by default, their votes are automatically considered a no to leaving.

Can you provide evidence or a precedent, or present the logic behind the claim that abstaining from voting is counted as a "no" to proposed measures ?

All I could find suggests differently.

Abstentions do not count in tallying the vote negatively or positively

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention


When some one proposes a situation which requires you to offer a yes or no, with the added provison that the accumulated yes vote and the accumulated no vote will decide the issue, the abstentions and the failure to vote are not counted.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?YesNoAbstainVoting

Silent Acquiescence. It is common practice that when someone is silent when a vote is taken, their vote is counted with the majority.

Abstentions. If someone states, “I abstain,” their vote cannot be counted as a “yes” vote or a “no” vote. It is a non-vote. "To 'abstain' means not to vote at all."

http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/...fault.aspx

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26-06-2016, 09:13 AM
The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 06:09 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 08:14 PM)Sam Wrote:  What's pissing me off right now is all the whining losers who want the referendum run again because they didn't win. That's not how democracy works. [...]

The alleged "win" amounted to a mere 3% margin from a population of approximately 53,000,000 which is hardly resounding. More critically, and from a legislative viewpoint, it's not what's termed an absolute majority—which is considered to be around 55% to 60% (varying on country) of all eligible voters.

In this referendum, an estimated 28% of the voting public abstained from voting, and by default, their votes are automatically considered a no to leaving.

If you add this 28% inadvertent "no" vote to the 48% recorded "no" vote, we end up with a true no to leaving vote of 76%, which is obviously an easy overall majority.

So I'd say that the call for a new referendum is perfectly logical, but of course the "yes" voters will, naturally, totally oppose this simply because they know that a new vote would be a convincing "yes" to staying in the EU. As it stands, 7% of those that voted yes to leaving would now—on second thoughts—vote "no" to leaving.


It was actually a 4% margin. And do you really think the remain voters would be calling for a 2nd referendum if they'd got the same result? I highly doubt it.

The polls actually predicted a remain win, with an even narrower margin, of about 2%. Even then, I'm sure they wouldn't be calling for a rerun.

You cannot count those who didn't vote as voting to stay in. If they wanted to stay in they should've got up off their arses and voted.


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26-06-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 06:09 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(24-06-2016 08:14 PM)Sam Wrote:  What's pissing me off right now is all the whining losers who want the referendum run again because they didn't win. That's not how democracy works. [...]

The alleged "win" amounted to a mere 3% margin from a population of approximately 53,000,000 which is hardly resounding. More critically, and from a legislative viewpoint, it's not what's termed an absolute majority—which is considered to be around 55% to 60% (varying on country) of all eligible voters.

In this referendum, an estimated 28% of the voting public abstained from voting, and by default, their votes are automatically considered a no to leaving.

If you add this 28% inadvertent "no" vote to the 48% recorded "no" vote, we end up with a true no to leaving vote of 76%, which is obviously an easy overall majority.

So I'd say that the call for a new referendum is perfectly logical, but of course the "yes" voters will, naturally, totally oppose this simply because they know that a new vote would be a convincing "yes" to staying in the EU. As it stands, 7% of those that voted yes to leaving would now—on second thoughts—vote "no" to leaving.
Is this what people call Bernie Brexit math?



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26-06-2016, 11:23 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
The leave camp won. The UK have voted to leave the EU. Fine. Now please go and fuck off out of Europe. There is no leadership, nobody in the government seems to know what to do, leave campaigners are starting to backtrack on their promises, all the fucking gobshites in the north of England who voted to leave because of all those " hard working foreigners" taking their jobs i.e Polish and other European workers . Sure, now those poor working class English folk will forgo unemployment benefits, replace the east European workers and will get up at 5 am in the morning to pick fruit.

Of course the Tories wont fudge the issue and backtrack on most of the promises made to the people. So, I hope the English chap who voted leave, is feeling very smug, as he reads his newspaper bought from the Pakistani corner shop, whist he's eating his Indian curry. And those "foreigners" have nothing to do with the EU. Au revoir, bye bye and fuck off.

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26-06-2016, 09:13 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
Interesting point of view...

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article...bJhqBql0VZ

"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.”

Article 50
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lis...le-50.html

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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