The European Union UK Referendum
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27-06-2016, 03:52 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 09:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Interesting point of view...

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article...bJhqBql0VZ

"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.”

Article 50
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lis...le-50.html

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

This is exactly what it says it is, "point of view" , an opinion piece.

I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

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27-06-2016, 04:19 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 03:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  This is exactly what it says it is, "point of view" , an opinion piece.

I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

I await the clear and concrete benefits that will result from the UK's decision to leave the EU. After all they've gotta be coming... First benefit: no one will have to be dictated to from Brussels any more Smile Second benefit: ...?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-06-2016, 04:42 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 03:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

That's because we know the butthurt that will be coming to all of us.

Except me of course. I'm either going to be living in an independent Scotland or have dual nationality and living in Germany.

Still, I feel sorry for my parents and others who voted remain and can't escape.
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27-06-2016, 05:01 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 07:10 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 06:09 AM)SYZ Wrote:  In this referendum, an estimated 28% of the voting public abstained from voting, and by default, their votes are automatically considered a no to leaving.

Can you provide evidence or a precedent, or present the logic behind the claim that abstaining from voting is counted as a "no" to proposed measures?

Yes. The Council of the European Union itself ruled in November 2014 that an abstention by member countries under qualified majority voting would count as a vote against. As 28% of the UK population abstained, there's no way that could be considered as an "aye" in toto for the UK (leaving the EU, that is).

At any rate, statistically once could assume that the yes/no vote would be split fairly equally if those slack 28% had got off their fat arses and voted.

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27-06-2016, 05:08 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(26-06-2016 09:13 AM)Sam Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 06:09 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The alleged "win" amounted to a mere 3% margin from a population of approximately 53,000,000 which is hardly resounding.

It was actually a 4% margin.

Oh wow! I just love it when a pedant crows about allegedly kicking a goal. Big Grin

It was actually 3.8%, but really, are you seriously gonna argue over a 0.8 figure?

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27-06-2016, 05:27 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 04:19 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 03:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  This is exactly what it says it is, "point of view" , an opinion piece.

I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

I await the clear and concrete benefits that will result from the UK's decision to leave the EU. After all they've gotta be coming... First benefit: no one will have to be dictated to from Brussels any more :) Second benefit: ...?

The way I look at it is this....

What are the benefits of not getting cancer? Well...not getting cancer.
Seems like enough of a benefit.

But in all seriousness , the benefits will be obvious after few years , EU is a failed ideological project, potentially dangerous bureaucratic clusterfuck.
UK voted to stand on its own two feet rather then be a part of a slow and inevitable decline as a part of EU.

People have this strange infatuation with what they thing the EU is, the facts are that euro zone has a small economic growth rate, smaller then other big economies, that unemployment is rampant , especially among youth and so on.

Next 4 links are GDP growth comparing Euro zone with

Australia

United States

China

Japan


[Image: adf76f.jpg]

The Euro zone is in a constant debt crisis.
The fact is that Euro zone would already collapse without the bailouts, but that can not last forever. Bailout funds are not inexhaustible.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/th...-fund.html

As a result of this, the European Central Bank, which is responsible for the management of the Euro currency and economic stability in the Eurozone, has been stepping in and buying up unsold government debt. The richer countries like Germany are supporting this Euro bailout fund — but this is only a temporary solution meant to keep the countries who can't sell their debt afloat.

The big danger of the bailout fund — which is, by the way, worth hundreds of billions of Euros — is that eventually, the richer nations that are paying the bill will start to run out of money, and that nations benefitting from the bailout may become complacent and don’t make the necessary cuts to their expenditure to balance their government finances.


You may think that EU is great, people travel and work where they want and everything is wonderful and rosy , everybody is happy. But that is not the case.
After the UK referendum we will see referendums in other EU countries and like the "surprise" result in the UK you will see just how unhappy people are with the EU.

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27-06-2016, 05:32 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 04:42 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 03:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

That's because we know the butthurt that will be coming to all of us.

Except me of course. I'm either going to be living in an independent Scotland or have dual nationality and living in Germany.

Still, I feel sorry for my parents and others who voted remain and can't escape.

Escape what? Consider

Your parents undoubtedly lived in a pre-EU Great Britain, as did many, many others.
Why not say they've escaped the EU?

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27-06-2016, 05:35 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 05:01 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 07:10 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Can you provide evidence or a precedent, or present the logic behind the claim that abstaining from voting is counted as a "no" to proposed measures?

Yes. The Council of the European Union itself ruled in November 2014 that an abstention by member countries under qualified majority voting would count as a vote against. As 28% of the UK population abstained, there's no way that could be considered as an "aye" in toto for the UK (leaving the EU, that is).

At any rate, statistically once could assume that the yes/no vote would be split fairly equally if those slack 28% had got off their fat arses and voted.

Can you provide a link to that ruling?

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27-06-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
All I know is that its chaos and turmoil and the UK is fracturing in front of our eyes just as was predicted. I admit I'm butthurt. I'm butthurt because I'm worried that my two sons have had a poison chalice thrust upon them. About the only positive for me is that I voted remain and so my conscience is clear at least.
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27-06-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(27-06-2016 04:42 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 03:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I can`t believe the butthurt of the remain camp.

That's because we know the butthurt that will be coming to all of us.

Except me of course. I'm either going to be living in an independent Scotland or have dual nationality and living in Germany.

Still, I feel sorry for my parents and others who voted remain and can't escape.

(27-06-2016 05:46 AM)adey67 Wrote:  All I know is that its chaos and turmoil and the UK is fracturing in front of our eyes just as was predicted. I admit I'm butthurt. I'm butthurt because I'm worried that my two sons have had a poison chalice thrust upon them. About the only positive for me is that I voted remain and so my conscience is clear at least.

You are literally acting like some religious nuts finding out that...idk, gay marriage will be allowed.

"OMG OMG THE END TIME IS UPON US"

Get a fakn grip.

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