The European Union UK Referendum
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-06-2016, 02:14 AM
Tongue RE: The European Union UK Referendum








Nigel Farage Explains Why Women Are 'Worth Less' Than Men

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/201...k-evidence

Quote:This man, who claims he stands alone in wanting to fight for Britain’s interests in the Evil EU, and who bemoans the amount of taxpayers' money going to the aforementioned Evil EU, boasts about having claimed up to £2m in expenses out of said taxpayers' money and presides over a party three of whose representatives have the worst attendance record of any British MEPs (who together already have the lowest attendance record of any national delegation).

Farage blames immigration for traffic on M4 after no-show at Ukip reception

But the party he leads is even worse ...

http://leftfootforward.org/2015/02/is-uk...uggest-so/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-06-2016, 02:44 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
“Nigel Farage insists that UKIP is not a racist party. So why does it attract so many racists?”
Because the most extreme party always attracts such an element. All of the BNP weren't "wicked racists" they were just wrong and had an even worse problem as so many of them were quite openly racist.

“islam is a cancer that needs eradicating multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.” And “I feel like a foreigner..why are men in pyjamas?”

Such comments are extreme and uncalled for, but I don’t like religion in general and I can see why some perceive Islam as a particular problem. I agree such language doesn’t help, nor does labeling people ‘Paki’ but we need to be careful about dismissing people as ‘racist’ too. Comments are more often racist than people. Lots of us don't talk in politically correct terms all the time, especially when it seems inconsequential. I've used Chinky and it was commonly used on housing estates. It probably still is. I'm not proud of that and we probably shouldn't have done it, but it wasn't intended as an insult, it simply indicated to us in what seemed a mildly humourous way where someone was going. "Innocent" days are always guilty, correctly speaking. Communication is about conveying understanding and one can always pick on something anyone in any party has said and miss the point of why the decent, well-intentioned people joined a party in the first place.

It is just as wrong to take offence unduly as it is to cause offence. It is the intention that counts. Wording, in context, can usually be forgiven. If you call people 'Pakis' pejoratively at all or routinely in any context, then it can lead to prejudice. Just as calling people stupid or racist can lead one to think of them that way.

Anyway, that isn’t what the EU referendum or Brexit is about. This is serious.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-06-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(30-06-2016 02:13 AM)Zeff Wrote:  This was an interesting comment earlier: "Yes. The Council of the European Union itself ruled in November 2014 that an abstention by member countries under qualified majority voting would count as a vote against. As 28% of the UK population abstained, there's no way that could be considered as an "aye" in toto for the UK (leaving the EU, that is)." (A link to this was requested, but I suppose it can be traced by anyone).

The referendum question wasn't 'should the uk leave the eu' it was should the uk remain or leave' so there is no 'against' position. Nor does qualified majority voting apply in any case since it is a voting system for member countries of the eu council, not for the populations of those countries voting on domestic matters.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ukatheist's post
30-06-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(30-06-2016 02:13 AM)Zeff Wrote:  And I just wanted to add that I don't think the referendum proved that the majority of voters wanted Brexit. The vote was less than 52% against over 48%, less than four percent difference. 28% of people didn't vote and I think most of them would have voted remain.

Then I think you need to brush up on your maths. The majority of voters did vote out. Those that did not vote either felt unqualified to do so or didn't care enough one way or the other to cast their vote, you cannot assert that they would have voted remain, just because it supports your own views.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-06-2016, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2016 12:48 PM by adey67.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(30-06-2016 02:44 AM)Zeff Wrote:  “Nigel Farage insists that UKIP is not a racist party. So why does it attract so many racists?”
Because the most extreme party always attracts such an element. All of the BNP weren't "wicked racists" they were just wrong and had an even worse problem as so many of them were quite openly racist.

“islam is a cancer that needs eradicating multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.” And “I feel like a foreigner..why are men in pyjamas?”

Such comments are extreme and uncalled for, but I don’t like religion in general and I can see why some perceive Islam as a particular problem. I agree such language doesn’t help, nor does labeling people ‘Paki’ but we need to be careful about dismissing people as ‘racist’ too. Comments are more often racist than people. Lots of us don't talk in politically correct terms all the time, especially when it seems inconsequential. I've used Chinky and it was commonly used on housing estates. It probably still is. I'm not proud of that and we probably shouldn't have done it, but it wasn't intended as an insult, it simply indicated to us in what seemed a mildly humourous way where someone was going. "Innocent" days are always guilty, correctly speaking. Communication is about conveying understanding and one can always pick on something anyone in any party has said and miss the point of why the decent, well-intentioned people joined a party in the first place.

It is just as wrong to take offence unduly as it is to cause offence. It is the intention that counts. Wording, in context, can usually be forgiven. If you call people 'Pakis' pejoratively at all or routinely in any context, then it can lead to prejudice. Just as calling people stupid or racist can lead one to think of them that way.

Anyway, that isn’t what the EU referendum or Brexit is about. This is serious.
Although i voted remain I have some sympathy with what you say in particular about overly taking offence which I see as frequently being a modus operandi to serupticiously shut up those you disagree with and which is a particularly popular trait amongst the far left. Technically anyone can take offence at what anyone else says and where do we daw the line ? Limiting immigration based on the facts we are a small island nation with finite land and resources is not racist its common sense and the one thing that nearly caused me to vote brexit. You realise both of us are going to be totally crucified on here before the day is out though. Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes adey67's post
30-06-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
Thanks for the constructive replies folks. I'm sorry UKAtheist didn't accept the point that the referendum didn't achieve what it set out to - determine the will of the UK electorate. (And if one reads my post, there's nothing wrong with my maths).

Still, if it doesn't work out (and contrary to what Messrs Major and Cameron claimed), we can apply to rejoin the EU. It might be difficult, but if our economy slides enough after a few years have past and if we get a more competent government, we could re-apply.

The EU should be like the UK in the sense that its task is to attract and retain members, not to try to frighten them out of going. It certainly shouldn't be argued that future generations will not manage to regain entry, even in the event separation doesn't work so well. Doesn't everyone want to be clear about the benefits of EU membership and know whether or not they're worth the price of membership?! People are clearly divided about that membership's value at this point and not just in the UK. Europe and the EU's aim is to work together towards the most mutually beneficial relationship. It isn't a competition between the EU and individual states as to who can obtain the most sovereignty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-06-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(30-06-2016 02:56 PM)Zeff Wrote:  The EU should be like the UK in the sense that its task is to attract and retain members, not to try to frighten them out of going. It certainly shouldn't be argued that future generations will not manage to regain entry, even in the event separation doesn't work so well. Doesn't everyone want to be clear about the benefits of EU membership and know whether or not they're worth the price of membership?! People are clearly divided about that membership's value at this point and not just in the UK. Europe and the EU's aim is to work together towards the most mutually beneficial relationship. It isn't a competition between the EU and individual states as to who can obtain the most sovereignty.

If the EU don't want other nations to leave then it makes sense for them to try and make Britain an object lesson in the folly of so doing. So they absolutely will try to give Britain the worst deal possible, I think possibly even at the expense of hurting themselves a bit. Carrot has unclear benefits to most it seems, so they'll go with stick.

Regarding your comments on racism I don't share your views. Racism IMO is unfortunately something systemic in society in the same way as sexism, to the point where people don't even notice it. One can't legislate attitudes though, so as long as actual racism - e.g. racist hiring policies - is illegal the best one can do is hope that over time people will change their minds by themselves, and discover that the Pakis down the road aren't so bad after all. And racism is perfectly possible without drawing distinctions of colour.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
01-07-2016, 04:05 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(30-06-2016 08:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  If the EU don't want other nations to leave then it makes sense for them to try and make Britain an object lesson in the folly of so doing. So they absolutely will try to give Britain the worst deal possible, I think possibly even at the expense of hurting themselves a bit. Carrot has unclear benefits to most it seems, so they'll go with stick.

Yeah, death sentence for the apostates in Islam follows the same logic.

Great thinking bro. Thumbsup

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 04:10 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-07-2016 04:05 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(30-06-2016 08:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  If the EU don't want other nations to leave then it makes sense for them to try and make Britain an object lesson in the folly of so doing. So they absolutely will try to give Britain the worst deal possible, I think possibly even at the expense of hurting themselves a bit. Carrot has unclear benefits to most it seems, so they'll go with stick.

Yeah, death sentence for the apostates in Islam follows the same logic.

Great thinking bro. Thumbsup

I didn't write the script. You want to suggest that they won't play it this way? What do you see happening? Already one of your ideas, that the Brits would just strongarm their way into the single market *and* get away from the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, is looking unlikely to happen.

Great thinking Bro Thumbsup

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(01-07-2016 04:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 04:05 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yeah, death sentence for the apostates in Islam follows the same logic.

Great thinking bro. Thumbsup

I didn't write the script. You want to suggest that they won't play it this way? What do you see happening? Already one of your ideas, that the Brits would just strongarm their way into the single market *and* get away from the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, is looking unlikely to happen.

Great thinking Bro Thumbsup

Nice strawman bro, I never said that Brits will strongarm their way into the single market , that was your ( deliberate ? ) misrepresentation of what I said.
What I said was just a simple easy to check fact , cutting UK out of trading with EU hurts the EU more then it hurts the UK.
I also posted the charts and links supporting this claim and I also posted a link containing this quote.

Even Euro giant Germany said in a government paper it recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" following Brexit.

and I will provide another link right now

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683687/...et-Juncker

German manufacturers quickly moved to demand tariff-free trade with the post-Brexit UK whilst Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande dismissed suggestions Britain would be punished for leaving the Union.

Matthias Wissmann president of the German Association of the Automotive Industry

“Every possible measure must be undertaken to enable the continued free movement of goods and services between the UK and the other EU countries.

“Following British departure from the EU, it will be in nobody’s interest to make the international flow of goods more expensive by erecting customs barriers between Britain and the European continent.”


So, to answer your question. This is the way I see it likely to happen.

I provided plenty of links to support my position while you only gloated over the assumption that Brits will not get what they voted for.

Quote:No access to Europe's market unless UK plays by the rules. So like *the* primary reason they voted to leave the EU, control of immigration is *still* outside of their hands, and *still* determined by those terrible faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. Laughat

You seem to wish the UK to decent into chaos and recession in order to prove you right?

Luckily , grownups are in charge of the situation.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Slowminded's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: