The European Union UK Referendum
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02-06-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 08:58 AM)Gaest Wrote:  Britain in Europe think tank event warns against 'Brexit'

Oxford professor Ngaire Woods on Brexit and the European Single Market

What would 'Brexit' mean for free movement?

BREXIT – Vicky Redwood, Chief UK Economist at Capital Economics discusses.

The EU will be alright (see Vicky Redwood). Britain (possibly minus Scotland) and Cameron are the ones taking a massive gamble. To be fair, as much as I would be sad to see Britain go (historical and cultural reasons), it might strengthen the unity of the EU and help it move foreward so...
Its immigration that's kept me teetering on the edge regarding leaving. We are a small country, much smaller than Germany or France. The so called freedom of movement is the EUs Achilles heel. Give every country control over their borders and we wouldn't be having this conversation. We signed up to a common market with free trade but its morphed into a desire for a European super state by some members so I can understand why there is a leave campaign but still I think its a mistake to leave.
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02-06-2016, 09:33 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 08:58 AM)Gaest Wrote:  Britain in Europe think tank event warns against 'Brexit'

Oxford professor Ngaire Woods on Brexit and the European Single Market

What would 'Brexit' mean for free movement?

BREXIT – Vicky Redwood, Chief UK Economist at Capital Economics discusses.

The EU will be alright (see Vicky Redwood). Britain (possibly minus Scotland) and Cameron are the ones taking a massive gamble. To be fair, as much as I would be sad to see Britain go (historical and cultural reasons), it might strengthen the unity of the EU and help it move foreward so...

We signed up for a common market and free trade NOT a European superstate which is what some European Union members seem to want. You do realise that it is Britains fierce desire for its own sovereignty and independence that ultimately allowed for the liberation of Europe from Nazi domination, without Britain as an unsinkable aircraft carrier not even Americas industrial might would have prevailed.
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02-06-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 09:12 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  They might not keep ALL the benefits of being the EU member , but the money they will save far exceeds the value of those benefits.
Also, please remind what those benefits are anyway?
Fucked if I know Tongue What's the benefit of leaving then? Money saved? It seems like that point is debatable. I'm just a peanut gallery member. But I'll use my google-fu here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Quote:The EU has developed an internal single market through a standardised system of laws that apply in all member states. Within the Schengen Area, passport controls have been abolished.[16] EU policies aim to ensure the free movement of people, goods, services, and capital,[17] enact legislation in justice and home affairs, and maintain common policies on trade,[18] agriculture,[19] fisheries, and regional development.[20] The monetary union was established in 1999 and came into full force in 2002. It is currently composed of 19 member states that use the euro as their legal tender.
The benefit of free movement of people, goods, services and capital seems insignificant?

Quote:Covering 7.3% of the world population,[22] the EU in 2014 generated a nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of 18.495 trillion US dollars, constituting approximately 24% of global nominal GDP and 17% when measured in terms of purchasing power parity.[23] Additionally, 26 out of 28 EU countries have a very high Human Development Index, according to the UNDP. In 2012, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.[24] Through the Common Foreign and Security Policy, the EU has developed a role in external relations and defence. The union maintains permanent diplomatic missions throughout the world and represents itself at the United Nations, the WTO, the G8, and the G-20. Because of its global influence, the European Union has been described as a current or as a potential superpower.[25]

Quote:If you look at the link I provided earlier , you will see that UK is contributing 17 billion euro to the EU annually and gets only 6.3 billion back from the EU.
And while you are at it you might also check out how much, for example, Poland , Greece, Hungary ... contribute to the EU and how much they are getting back. It will became immediately clear why they are in the EU.
I read your link, it was fairly neutral. I even commented on that fact. Your claim of saving the money is in the article set against the counter-claim that EU economic market membership brings in a lot more money than the money allegedly "spent" by the UK. If UK is the largest trading partner for the EU, same goes the other way round. Also your link adjusts the raw numbers by taking into account some other factors, the net outlay is calculated (IIRC, I don't have it open) as around 6 billion pounds.

Here's another link with comparisons. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-20448450

From the link:
Quote:Are there any viable options for Britain leaving the EU?

Quote:Yes. Britain could negotiate an "amicable divorce", but retain strong trading links with EU nations.

Quote:No. An "amicable divorce" is a pipe dream.

Quote:Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to lower-cost EU countries. Britain's large foreign-owned car industry would shift into the EU and sectors linked to EU membership such as aerospace would also suffer. Airbus production could move to France and Germany, pro-EU commentators claim.
I haven't quoted the pro-exit side here but... it's nowhere close to being clear that EU membership hurts the UK *or* that pulling out is a terrific idea.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-06-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 09:14 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 08:58 AM)Gaest Wrote:  Britain in Europe think tank event warns against 'Brexit'

Oxford professor Ngaire Woods on Brexit and the European Single Market

What would 'Brexit' mean for free movement?

BREXIT – Vicky Redwood, Chief UK Economist at Capital Economics discusses.

The EU will be alright (see Vicky Redwood). Britain (possibly minus Scotland) and Cameron are the ones taking a massive gamble. To be fair, as much as I would be sad to see Britain go (historical and cultural reasons), it might strengthen the unity of the EU and help it move foreward so...
Its immigration that's kept me teetering on the edge regarding leaving. We are a small country, much smaller than Germany or France. The so called freedom of movement is the EUs Achilles heel. Give every country control over their borders and we wouldn't be having this conversation. We signed up to a common market with free trade but its morphed into a desire for a European super state by some members so I can understand why there is a leave campaign but still I think its a mistake to leave.

You mean immigration from other EU citizens?
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02-06-2016, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 10:17 AM by adey67.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 10:03 AM)Gaest Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 09:14 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Its immigration that's kept me teetering on the edge regarding leaving. We are a small country, much smaller than Germany or France. The so called freedom of movement is the EUs Achilles heel. Give every country control over their borders and we wouldn't be having this conversation. We signed up to a common market with free trade but its morphed into a desire for a European super state by some members so I can understand why there is a leave campaign but still I think its a mistake to leave.

You mean immigration from other EU citizens?
Both eu and non eu. We need to be much tougher.
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02-06-2016, 10:17 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
I’m very curious to see how this all turns out.

The situation with GB and the EU is similar to what we have in the States with some states being much more productive than others, California vs Mississippi as an example. In a union there will always be an imbalance of contribution by the members, in this case GB along with Germany are the two biggest contributors.

I think one needs to revisit the original reasons as to why the EU became the EU. To become a trading bloc that rivals the US, Japan, China & India in strength and economic power to negotiate for itself more favorable terms in global trade.

Pros and Cons of a Single Market
http://occupytheory.org/advantages-and-d...ean-union/

"Currently, 45 per cent of the UK’s exports are to the EU, while 50 per cent of imports are from the EU.”

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/eu-referen...z4ARXcChw1

I think a big issue is the immigration burden that has fallen disproprotionately on GB and Germany as well. Everyone wants a better life and those two countries are by far the most productive.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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02-06-2016, 10:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 11:01 AM by adey67.)
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 10:17 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I’m very curious to see how this all turns out.

The situation with GB and the EU is similar to what we have in the States with some states being much more productive than others, California vs Mississippi as an example. In a union there will always be an imbalance of contribution by the members, in this case GB along with Germany are the two biggest contributors.

I think one needs to revisit the original reasons as to why the EU became the EU. To become a trading bloc that rivals the US, Japan, China & India in strength and economic power to negotiate for itself more favorable terms in global trade.

Pros and Cons of a Single Market
http://occupytheory.org/advantages-and-d...ean-union/

"Currently, 45 per cent of the UK’s exports are to the EU, while 50 per cent of imports are from the EU.”

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/eu-referen...z4ARXcChw1

I think a big issue is the immigration burden that has fallen disproprotionately on GB and Germany as well. Everyone wants a better life and those two countries are by far the most productive.

This is true
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02-06-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 10:37 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:17 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I’m very curious to see how this all turns out.

The situation with GB and the EU is similar to what we have in the States with some states being much more productive than others, California vs Mississippi as an example. In a union there will always be an imbalance of contribution by the members, in this case GB along with Germany are the two biggest contributors.

I think one needs to revisit the original reasons as to why the EU became the EU. To become a trading bloc that rivals the US, Japan, China & India in strength and economic power to negotiate for itself more favorable terms in global trade.

Pros and Cons of a Single Market
http://occupytheory.org/advantages-and-d...ean-union/

"Currently, 45 per cent of the UK’s exports are to the EU, while 50 per cent of imports are from the EU.”

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/24/eu-referen...z4ARXcChw1

I think a big issue is the immigration burden that has fallen disproprotionately on GB and Germany as well. Everyone wants a better life and those two countries are by far the most productive.

Thanks FC in part it is our generous social security policies that are at fault in encouraging mass immigration both for Germany but more so and including the UK but our current citizens should not have to suffer, many have paid in for years. We desperately need to control our borders to move the EU away from a super state and back to its original aim of economic free trade.
And this is best done from the inside.
It is my honest but not very popular opinion that much eu disagreement is as a result of Germany trying to over compensate for their past and be all things to all people, I'm sure I will get roasted for that but meh.
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02-06-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 09:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  The benefit of free movement of people, goods, services and capital seems insignificant?

Well, imagine this, I am not in the EU and I can still be in London tomorrow if I wanted to, I can also buy a house in London if I had the money, or start a company in the UK. And they can do the same here.
Company I work for exports to EU without any obstacles whatsoever, and money flows as easy as me paying my electric bill.

They are not going to lose this freedoms by leaving the EU.

Quote:What's the benefit of leaving then? Money saved? It seems like that point is debatable.
Once again, main reason for leaving the EU is not money saved , although it is a factor. But , like you said , economic benefits are debatable.
It wasn't me who brought up the question of economy in the first place anyway. It was Marozz , but then it was mostly you who kept insisting that Britain will be fucked economically if they leave. I was merely responding.

Main reasons are keeping their sovereignty, control of their borders , and the power to elect and remove from office people who govern their lives.
Right now, their lives are governed by nameless , faceless bureaucrats in Brussels who are elected by no one and who answer to no one.

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02-06-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: The European Union UK Referendum
(02-06-2016 10:47 AM)adey67 Wrote:  It is my honest but not very popular opinion that much eu disagreement is as a result of Germany trying to over compensate for their past and be all things to all people, I'm sure I will get roasted for that but meh.

I´d like my Adey well done, thanks. Can i have some fries with that?

Germany triggers Turkish outcry with Armenian genocide vote

Iraq disarmament crisis

US diplomatic pressure to bring Iraq to compliance quickly created a diplomatic crisis in the UN, where some members were in agreement with the U.S. position, while others dissented, notably the permanent Security Council members France, Russia and the People's Republic of China, and fellow NATO members Germany and Belgium.

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