The Evil Eye and Fate.
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29-08-2014, 09:31 AM
The Evil Eye and Fate.
So bad stuff has been happening in my family for about two months now, and my mom has quite a few explanations for it. It all started when my boyfriend proposed me to marry him. Now its a huge deal in Pakistan when a guy actually loves a girl enough to marry her (otherwise guys here just keep a girlfriend for fun and marry wherever their moms want them to) so all my cousins and uncles and aunts were very surprised and some girls were jealous too. Anyway we were supposed to be ceremoniously engaged on 23rd August.
Soon after he proposed, problems started arising like our financial conditions got bad, the money we were saving for the engagement was now being spent on fixing a fridge that suddenly stopped working, or electric circuits that heated up, or electric motors, my mom got ill, my diabetic aunt got ill, all in all bad stuff started happening all at once. And then, just one week before my engagement, my going-to-be fiance and I had a huge fight, it got so much out of hand that my mom fainted and my boyfriend and I broke up, which is good because it turned out he was mentally unstable. Now my family suggests:
- People were jealous of how happy I was and the engagement ended because of evil eye.
- One of our relatives was jealous of our happiness so he cast a magic spell that all our money would be wasted in household problems so we wont be able to afford an engagement.
- I don't believe in god so it's him punishing me and taking our wealth away.
- It's your fate, you mother's husband was a psycho and since you are her daughter, you were bound to have a psychotic husband as well.

Now I try and try to explain my family that these things don't really exist and you're all juts looking for a reason to blame someone else for your misfortune but then they say 'so how do you explain all the things that happened, all at once, ever since your proposal?' And I shut up because I seriously don't know what to say, bad stuff happen, but they are not willing to accept this explanation. So what I want is for you guys to give me some solid scientific explanations for why evil eye, black magic and fate look like they actually do work?

All great truths begin as blasphemy - George Bernard Shaw
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29-08-2014, 09:34 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
My first argument would be that it is their confirmation biases...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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29-08-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
Sometimes bad things do happen. If you are looking for a pattern (as your family are) then it can be easy to ignore the good things that happen and only see the bad. Also, it happens kind of randomly, so maybe in one month someone dies, then a friend has a car accident, then something else happens and ja, when you don't expect it it can look almost like someone is guiding this bad stuff into your life.

The thing is, if you were God, why would you torture people in this silly way to make them believe in you? Why wouldn't you just be up front about it? Actually *be* the wonderful God that you claim you are, and then people will believe in you. Is it worth following a God who tortures people instead of helping them?

On the topic of jealous relatives and evil spells, just bring up that there is no evidence for such things even working (they may retaliate with anecdotes), and that it would be an incredibly evil thing to do, to unjustly accuse someone just because of your bad luck.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-08-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
Coincidence. Agency.

We have evolved as pattern-seeking animals. So we also see patterns that are not there.

Do your acquaintances blame a non-evil eye when beneficial coincidences happen?

Consider

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29-08-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
(29-08-2014 09:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Coincidence. Agency.

We have evolved as pattern-seeking animals. So we also see patterns that are not there.

Do your acquaintances blame a non-evil eye when beneficial coincidences happen?

Consider

Haha NO! They praise ALLAH.
When I get good grades, Allah did it.
When I earn for myself. Thanks to Allah.
When I help my mom. Thanks to Allah for a good daughter.
But no one blames Allah when I do something bad, then it's either me or the devil getting all the shit.

All great truths begin as blasphemy - George Bernard Shaw
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29-08-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
Of course it's rational to view this as simply as life happens. You might respond by telling them that every bad thing in life that happens to them can be viewed as supernatural forces are arrayed against them as well. You might emphasize the point that you view this as a good thing, it's better to discover these flaws in someone before you marry them, you dodged a bullet!

Life is what you make of it, refuse to accept their negative assertions about these circumstances, this is how superstition and ignorance thrive. Don't let it affect you.Thumbsup

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-08-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
(29-08-2014 09:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  Sometimes bad things do happen. If you are looking for a pattern (as your family are) then it can be easy to ignore the good things that happen and only see the bad. Also, it happens kind of randomly, so maybe in one month someone dies, then a friend has a car accident, then something else happens and ja, when you don't expect it it can look almost like someone is guiding this bad stuff into your life.

The thing is, if you were God, why would you torture people in this silly way to make them believe in you? Why wouldn't you just be up front about it? Actually *be* the wonderful God that you claim you are, and then people will believe in you. Is it worth following a God who tortures people instead of helping them?

On the topic of jealous relatives and evil spells, just bring up that there is no evidence for such things even working (they may retaliate with anecdotes), and that it would be an incredibly evil thing to do, to unjustly accuse someone just because of your bad luck.

Evil spells.....
But but....




Nevermind.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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29-08-2014, 11:22 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2014 11:26 AM by Zippo.)
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
(29-08-2014 09:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Coincidence. Agency.

We have evolved as pattern-seeking animals. So we also see patterns that are not there.

Do your acquaintances blame a non-evil eye when beneficial coincidences happen?

Consider

"a non-evil eye"...

Not a benevolent one, mind you. No,no, this is just a "non-evil eye". It's kind of a neutral eye. It watches, but couldn't care less. It may judge you every once in a while, but won't say anything about it because it couldn't be bothered to.

Brilliant
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29-08-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
(29-08-2014 11:22 AM)Zippo Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 09:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Coincidence. Agency.

We have evolved as pattern-seeking animals. So we also see patterns that are not there.

Do your acquaintances blame a non-evil eye when beneficial coincidences happen?

Consider

"a non-evil eye"...

Not a benevolent one, mind you. No,no, this is just a "non-evil eye". It's kind of a neutral eye. It watches, but couldn't care less. It may judge you every once in a while, but won't say anything about it because it couldn't be bothered to.

Brilliant

You've just described cats. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2014, 01:33 PM
RE: The Evil Eye and Fate.
(29-08-2014 01:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 11:22 AM)Zippo Wrote:  "a non-evil eye"...

Not a benevolent one, mind you. No,no, this is just a "non-evil eye". It's kind of a neutral eye. It watches, but couldn't care less. It may judge you every once in a while, but won't say anything about it because it couldn't be bothered to.

Brilliant

You've just described cats. Dodgy

I guess.
But you don't have to feed the eye or clean its "eye-y litter".
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