The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
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03-03-2012, 12:26 AM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:22 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 11:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  What you say is simple and logical is a gross distortion of the general thrust of what you are attempting to convey in actuality, which is God as an unjustified and evil puppeteer.

But, you just created a paradox. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then His "puppeteering" goes beyond finite human knowledge. If God is perfect, then His plan is perfect; regardless if we view it as unjustified or evil. God's standards and knowledge will always be greater than ours... if not, then God isn't all powerful.

You see, you are creating a standard for God and holding Him to it. God cannot be held to any human standard.

Again, all of this is under the assumption that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

Nor can he equate to any ineffable standard; there are no cosmic parameters, hence no perfect god. Have a good nights rest,you'll feel fresher in the morning.....Sleepy

The ole start a theology debate then argue as an atheist routine.

/yawn

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03-03-2012, 12:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 12:32 AM by Erxomai.)
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:22 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 11:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  What you say is simple and logical is a gross distortion of the general thrust of what you are attempting to convey in actuality, which is God as an unjustified and evil puppeteer.

But, you just created a paradox. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then His "puppeteering" goes beyond finite human knowledge. If God is perfect, then His plan is perfect; regardless if we view it as unjustified or evil. God's standards and knowledge will always be greater than ours... if not, then God isn't all powerful.

You see, you are creating a standard for God and holding Him to it. God cannot be held to any human standard.

Again, all of this is under the assumption that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

Nor can he equate to any ineffable standard; there are no cosmic parameters, hence no perfect god. Have a good nights rest,you'll feel fresher in the morning.....Sleepy

The ole start a theology debate then argue as an atheist routine.

/yawn

Poor KC. Discussion turns to reality and he just can't cope because he's had little practice dealing with it. Sad

(03-03-2012 12:22 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 11:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Calvinists believe that God creates the desires to do good inside a person.

Girly does the right thing because it's the right thing to do. I don't need no fucking overseer.

Amen, Brother!

Fuck, but this "God is in control of making me an atheist damned to hell" shit is getting old! Sir Woof, I grok you.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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03-03-2012, 12:33 AM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 12:36 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:22 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 11:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  What you say is simple and logical is a gross distortion of the general thrust of what you are attempting to convey in actuality, which is God as an unjustified and evil puppeteer.

But, you just created a paradox. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then His "puppeteering" goes beyond finite human knowledge. If God is perfect, then His plan is perfect; regardless if we view it as unjustified or evil. God's standards and knowledge will always be greater than ours... if not, then God isn't all powerful.

You see, you are creating a standard for God and holding Him to it. God cannot be held to any human standard.

Again, all of this is under the assumption that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

Nor can he equate to any ineffable standard; there are no cosmic parameters, hence no perfect god. Have a good nights rest,you'll feel fresher in the morning.....Sleepy

The ole start a theology debate then argue as an atheist routine.

/yawn

Poor KC. Discussion turns to reality and he just can't cope because he's had little practice dealing with it. Sad

No, it's just frustrating.

Hey, I think these types of oranges suck.
No they don't... they really are good; here's why-
IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE ORANGES AREN'T APPLES!
-_-
(03-03-2012 12:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Fuck, but this "God is in control of making me an atheist damned to hell" shit is getting old! Sir Woof, I grok you.

I agree. People need to stop bringing it up.

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03-03-2012, 12:38 AM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Fuck, but this "God is in control of making me an atheist damned to hell" shit is getting old! Sir Woof, I grok you.

I agree. People need to stop bringing it up.

You could always recant.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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03-03-2012, 12:38 AM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:38 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Fuck, but this "God is in control of making me an atheist damned to hell" shit is getting old! Sir Woof, I grok you.

I agree. People need to stop bringing it up.

You could always recant.

iCant

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03-03-2012, 12:39 AM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 12:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:38 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Fuck, but this "God is in control of making me an atheist damned to hell" shit is getting old! Sir Woof, I grok you.

I agree. People need to stop bringing it up.

You could always recant.

iCant

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It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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03-03-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
Its nothing to yawn about.Angry
Quite simply you are coming from a riduculous position.

You see (1) God as having eternal knowledge and power over the entire Universe

(2) By virtue of (1) god knows exactly what will happen at any time in the future and is also orchestrator of what happens.

(3) As mass suffering is part of gods"plan" it follows from (2) that his plan could not , or wanted not, a less disruptive game.

(4)It does not follow from god's alleged power and infinite knowledge that he possesses any degree of decency...........a clever experimmenter.

(5) You either see (your god) as worthy, based solely on power and knowledge, and hope to join him in his crazed activities .......or

(6) You also see god as perfectly good, with no sound justification, quite the contrary, and try to fabricate "cosmic goodness" and relate it to human suffering.

(7) To elaborate on (6) your god inhabits his own exclusive moral domain, far removed from the natural world, yet mankind is expected to abide by it.

(8) If God was perfectly well adjusted, why need he create
mass suffering, not only for mankind but also all the souless creatures inhabiting his Universe

(9) In a boundless fluctuating Universe perfection of any permanent nature appears remote.

(10)Any god/goddess worth their salt would place kindness and improvement of their underlings ahead of creating gross and perverse pantomimes/
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03-03-2012, 05:11 PM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
I have to disagree that people are born with the desire to be good, creator or not. In small children you see when you raise them, you tell them whats right and whats wrong. In actuality, you inherit your parent's morality until you can create your own, if you can at all. Which is why parents are encouraged to raise their children properly, because in failure of teaching children from right and wrong they won't know what is morbid, evil, ect.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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03-03-2012, 06:06 PM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 05:11 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I have to disagree that people are born with the desire to be good, creator or not. In small children you see when you raise them, you tell them whats right and whats wrong. In actuality, you inherit your parent's morality until you can create your own, if you can at all. Which is why parents are encouraged to raise their children properly, because in failure of teaching children from right and wrong they won't know what is morbid, evil, ect.

There seem to be many factors at interplay; hereditory issues, peer pressure, psychological issues, environmental factors, one's culture, social conditioning, awareness, religion etc.

If there is some type of moral creator I think it would facilitate a learning process based on experience leading to betterment, not coercion leading to confusion.
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03-03-2012, 06:24 PM
RE: The Evil Lunacy of Calvinism.
(03-03-2012 06:06 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  There seem to be many factors at interplay; hereditory issues, peer pressure, psychological issues, environmental factors, one's culture, social conditioning, awareness, religion etc.

If there is some type of moral creator I think it would facilitate a learning process based on experience leading to betterment, not coercion leading to confusion.

Isn't it amazing that every person on here would do a better job at being God than the one KC thinks he believes in? Unless someone was wanting to be an ass, not one of us would create confusion among our minions. Coercion, maybe, at least Hamata K would use that. Big Grin

But if we wanted our people to live healthy, sane lives, would any true God leave everything so ambiguous? Not if we truly loved our creation.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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