The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
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10-07-2011, 03:56 AM
The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
Most Christians think the Jesus of the gospels was a great bloke. I don't. I think many of his teachings are fundamentally ethically flawed. I invite people to comment on his words. I'll start the ball rolling with...

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.” (Luke 19:27 NJB). I have yet to find an explanation from a Christian that can justify these atrocious words.

What about
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven
Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted." (Matthew 5:3-5 NKJV) ?
I reckon depression (being poor in spirit) sucks.
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10-07-2011, 08:41 AM
 
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
I'm not sure those are great examples. The first quote was a parable, not Jesus ordering people to be killed. BUT the message of the parable, IMO, is worse than if you misrepresent it that way. It's basically the whole "if you reject Christ you're going to hell!" bullshit, so instead of just dieing you get to be tortured forever. Of course the Christians are fine with the whole hell bit but can't stand the thought of Jesus actually ordering people to be killed. Then they'll defend every genocide that God committed in the old testament. It boggles my mind Tongue

The other one was simply saying that those unfortunate people will be compensated. They will be rewarded for the suffering they endured in this life. But like the other one, if you continue thinking about it that raises more problems. Are they getting an extra heaveny spot in heaven? In that case why aren't they all trying to maximize their heavenly reward by living in poverty and giving to the poor? Actually, that would make helping others a bad thing, since the others won't be rewarded for the suffering they didn't get to endure Big Grin

Did you or someone else mention a bible passage where Jesus is mean to a woman because she's a Roman? I'd use that for my example if I knew what passage it was.
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10-07-2011, 09:54 AM
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
Jesus calls a Caananite woman a dog when she asks him to help her sick daughter. He says he only helps Jews.

He later relents because she shows great faith, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a bigot.
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10-07-2011, 07:37 PM
 
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
(10-07-2011 09:54 AM)gamutman Wrote:  Jesus calls a Caananite woman a dog when she asks him to help her sick daughter. He says he only helps Jews.

He later relents because she shows great faith, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a bigot.

Yes! That's the one I was thinking of! A perfect example of Jesus's lovely ethical teachings Tongue
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10-07-2011, 10:27 PM
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." -Matthew 10:34
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10-07-2011, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2011 11:37 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
(10-07-2011 10:27 PM)Atheist Wrote:  “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." -Matthew 10:34

I hadn't come across the first one...he's repeating one of the teachings from the OT.
“"Anyone who curses father or mother will be put to death. Having cursed father or mother, the blood will be on that person's own head.” (Leviticus 20:9 NJB)

(10-07-2011 08:41 AM)Zach Wrote:  I'm not sure those are great examples. The first quote was a parable, not Jesus ordering people to be killed. BUT the message of the parable, IMO, is worse than if you misrepresent it that way. It's basically the whole "if you reject Christ you're going to hell!" bullshit, so instead of just dieing you get to be tortured forever. Of course the Christians are fine with the whole hell bit but can't stand the thought of Jesus actually ordering people to be killed. Then they'll defend every genocide that God committed in the old testament. It boggles my mind Tongue

The other one was simply saying that those unfortunate people will be compensated. They will be rewarded for the suffering they endured in this life. But like the other one, if you continue thinking about it that raises more problems. Are they getting an extra heaveny spot in heaven? In that case why aren't they all trying to maximize their heavenly reward by living in poverty and giving to the poor? Actually, that would make helping others a bad thing, since the others won't be rewarded for the suffering they didn't get to endure Big Grin

Did you or someone else mention a bible passage where Jesus is mean to a woman because she's a Roman? I'd use that for my example if I knew what passage it was.

Hi....re the first quote. Someone else somewhere said the same thing to me. I have read the verses before and after Luke 19;27 in a number of different Bibles, and I just don't get how killing someone is part of the parable. I am not saying you are not right, but could you explain it to me?


(10-07-2011 08:41 AM)Zach Wrote:  I'm not sure those are great examples. The first quote was a parable, not Jesus ordering people to be killed. BUT the message of the parable, IMO, is worse than if you misrepresent it that way. It's basically the whole "if you reject Christ you're going to hell!" bullshit, so instead of just dieing you get to be tortured forever. Of course the Christians are fine with the whole hell bit but can't stand the thought of Jesus actually ordering people to be killed. Then they'll defend every genocide that God committed in the old testament. It boggles my mind Tongue

The other one was simply saying that those unfortunate people will be compensated. They will be rewarded for the suffering they endured in this life. But like the other one, if you continue thinking about it that raises more problems. Are they getting an extra heaveny spot in heaven? In that case why aren't they all trying to maximize their heavenly reward by living in poverty and giving to the poor? Actually, that would make helping others a bad thing, since the others won't be rewarded for the suffering they didn't get to endure Big Grin

Did you or someone else mention a bible passage where Jesus is mean to a woman because she's a Roman? I'd use that for my example if I knew what passage it was.

Hi....re the first quote. Someone else somewhere said the same thing to me. I have read the verses before and after Luke 19;27 in a number of different Bibles, and I just don't get how killing someone is part of the parable. I am not saying you are not right, but could you explain it to me?
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12-07-2011, 05:11 AM
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
I laugh when Christians point to the Old Testament as flawed and brutal compare the the New. I feel quite to opposite, at least the Old makes each of us accountable for our own actions, I can think of no greater immorality than the sacrificing of an innocent for the guilt of others as portrayed in the Gospels. In essence, it allows even the greatest of evils to be done and then washed away with nothing more than an "I'm sorry". Such a belief system is begging to be used as a cover for unspeakable atrocity.

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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12-07-2011, 08:15 AM
 
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
(10-07-2011 11:18 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi....re the first quote. Someone else somewhere said the same thing to me. I have read the verses before and after Luke 19;27 in a number of different Bibles, and I just don't get how killing someone is part of the parable. I am not saying you are not right, but could you explain it to me?

From the SAB

Quote:19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

You could be right; these two verses could be taken separately from the actual parable. But I think they go with the story, demonstrating that the returning king will punish those who were complacent in his absence by taking back what he gave them, but those who had turned against him will be given a far worse punishment - death.

It seems like an attempted analogy for Jesus's second coming, with him being the king, but the consequences faced by each of the servants aren't analogous to the consequences that we'll supposedly face when he returns. The story doesn't make much sense to me, but I'd chalk that up to the fact that the bible is a load of bullshit.
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12-07-2011, 10:53 AM
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
"So then, you cannot be my disciple unless you give away everything you own." Luke 14:33 (CEV)
So Jesus only wanted poor people to follow him?

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36
No, wait. Jesus just wants well armed people to follow him!

"For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law — a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:35-37
So...can I just be friends with my own family or what...?

"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life." Matthew 19:29 (NIV)
This just sounds cultish. And yay Jesus said "Drink the Kool-aid."

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Luke 12:49-53
Again with the family hate. What an ass!

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
Once more...with ZEST!

"Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." 1 John 3:15
Wait...Now I am just fucking confused...

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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12-07-2011, 12:18 PM
RE: The Extremely Questionable Ethics of Jesus
I can't find one more ethically flawed than this....

Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Then there is this one...

"Jesus went to Simon’s home, where he found Simon’s mother-in-law very sick with a high fever. “Please heal her,” everyone begged. 39 Standing at her bedside, he rebuked the fever, and it left her. And she got up at once and prepared a meal for them." Luke 4:38-39

Woman!! get your ass up and make me a sandwich!!

“We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.” Orson Welles
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