The "Fake news" conspiracy
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03-12-2016, 06:30 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2016 12:03 AM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
The "Fake news" conspiracy
From: http://www.newslogue.com/debate/138

"It's becoming more and more acceptable in liberal circles to ignore all information that doesn't validate one's ideology, and it's making us all stupid.
Agree 75% Disagree 25%
We now live in a society where sources that don’t confirm one’s bias are immediately dismissed as “fake news”, and nothing is considered true unless Wolf Blitzer says it. This is killing political discourse in America, and it’s turning us all into idiots.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to bring up a legitimate concern about the Democratic establishment in a debate with a party loyalist and been told that I’m crazy or ridiculous because it’s a concern they’d never encountered before. Whether I’m discussing a WikiLeaks release that didn’t get much coverage or the fact that Hillary Clinton really seemed to be gearing up for an all-out war with Russia, I have never, ever been met with sincerity or had my concerns directly addressed in an earnest debate of ideas with a Hillary voter. Not once. Not one single time, ever, to this day. And I’ve spoken to a lot of them.

They consistently dismissed me and told me I was crazy for bringing up such concerns, because they’d never heard about them. Why had they never heard about them? Because they live in an echo chamber. They’d never heard Rachel Maddow discuss the fact that Obama’s cabinet was selected for him by an executive from Citibank before he was even elected, which determined his administration’s lax and lenient policies toward Wall Street. They’d never heard John Oliver go on a self-righteous tirade about how a top Marine Corps General and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Hillary’s plan for a no-fly zone in Syria would necessarily entail a direct war with Russia. They’ve never been told about these things by Chris Cuomo or the Washington Post. All they’d ever been told by their friends and favorite pundits is that they’re right, and everyone who disagrees with them is at best privileged and ignorant, and at worst racist and fascist.



And it’s only gotten worse ever since the “fake news” smear campaign began against alternative media. Now every single time I try to substantiate my argument with a link or a source when debating a neoliberal, they tell me my source is invalid unless it comes from one of the mainstream news sites that have consistently avoided covering anything that made Clinton look bad. The talking heads on TV are telling them that it’s okay to do this now, that they no longer have to look at a news story and address its content anymore, because unless it comes from NBC, CNN or the New York Times, it’s fake. People are even doing this with mainstream outlets like The Observer and Fox News now; it happens routinely in my interactions with them. Try talking about how their favorite neoliberal outlets hardly ever cover WikiLeaks or the Clinton Foundation scandals and they call you a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, even while they themselves feel perfectly comfortable and sane blaming Hillary’s loss on a vast global Trump-Putin-Comey-Assange conspiracy.

Political discourse is dead in America. We can’t debate each other anymore. Open dialogue between opposing viewpoints has been cut off completely, and instead we all now seek out whatever echo chamber we find the least egoically challenging, wall ourselves off from the rest of the world, and listen to the soothing voices tell us how right we are.

Nobody wants truth anymore. We all just want to feel like we’re right and everyone else is wrong, and we don’t care how many lies it takes to make that happen. The light of truth is uncomfortable for our political identities, so we avoid it.

This is of course happening across all ends of the political spectrum. There are still to this day Republicans who insist that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, and there’s no shortage of voices authoritatively confirming that bias for them. Even my beloved Greens have it, many of them currently criticizing their own Jill Stein for her initiative to get vote recounts because it risks putting Clinton in the White House, which many on the far left (myself included) find much scarier than President Trump. Forget truth, forget light; they just want to get their way. They’re more than happy to try and manipulate and control what happens as long as it leads to them getting what they want and avoiding what they don’t want. These people would probably rig elections themselves if they could get away with it.



But all things are not equal; the neoliberals are unquestionably the worst. No other political group arbitrarily labels those who disagree with its ideology as fascists and Nazis, and then refuses to listen to anything they say because “I’ll be damned if I’ll sit and listen to a bunch of fascists and Nazis.” No other political group dismisses any news media outside of its preferred echo chamber as “fake news”. No other political group is still trying to claim that WikiLeaks did something wrong by sharing the truth with the American people. No other political group scoffs at and dismisses any story that they haven’t seen discussed inside their own personal echo chamber. No other political group resorts to bullying and ad hominem attacks to anywhere near the extent that Clinton liberals do.

It is only the neoliberals, the Democratic party loyalists that are doing these things. But since they’re a massive group right smack in the middle of the political spectrum, with the Republicans and Libertarians on the right and the Berners, Greens, socialists and progressives on the left, it’s putting a massive wobble on political dialogue all across the board. Sick of being abused and bullied by Clinton Democrats, many leftists have just stopped talking to anyone outside their circle, except maybe to the deplorables, who at least treat them kindly. Sick of being told that they’re racists, fascists and Nazis, people who supported Donald Trump for president have done the same, pulling away into their own segregated circles while trying to avoid the onslaught of attacks, fearmongering and censorship. And right there in between is the political group that’s causing it all, happily feeling righteous and validated in their little echo chambers while laughing away at the latest episode of The Daily Show.

This is making us all stupid, and it has got to stop. Democracy can’t function this way. If we know that our government has been lying to us and the media has been helping them, it’s of utmost importance that we become more open and honest with each other, not less. We can’t steer this country if we can’t see where we’re going, and we can’t see where we’re going if we’re not talking to each other. It’s of utmost importance that we get out of our echo chambers and start learning what's really happening with the actual people in actual America.

Imagine how much brain power we’d have if we started connecting instead of separating. It’s not necessary that we all agree on everything, all we’d have to do is keep a sincere, open sharing of ideas and information happening across the ideological gaps. Each group would force the others to step up their game and come up with better and better arguments for their position, and we’d be shown the inherent flaws in our ideology that need to be fixed. This would be a movement toward greater and greater intelligence instead of greater and greater idiocy. I don’t know about you, but I find that infinitely preferable."
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03-12-2016, 06:37 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
Is the thrust of this article, fake news is only fake depending on who says it?

Or in other words, if a "liberal" says something it's fake, but of a conservative says it, it's "not fake"?

Dodgy


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-12-2016, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 06:46 PM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
(03-12-2016 06:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Is the thrust of this article, fake news is only fake depending on who says it?

Or in other words, if a "liberal" says something it's fake, but of a conservative says it, it's "not fake"?

Dodgy

No. But 95% of American media is left. I say that as a liberal.

The far-left majority is telling its consumers that media other than it is fake.
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03-12-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 06:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Is the thrust of this article, fake news is only fake depending on who says it?

Or in other words, if a "liberal" says something it's fake, but of a conservative says it, it's "not fake"?

Dodgy

No. But 95% of American media is left. I say that as a liberal.

What used to be considered "media" is shifting. Facebook is fast becoming a media outlet too. "Weekly World News" used to be considered "media" as well, they would have weird real news sandwiched between stories about the Virgin Mary being seen in clouds and alien abductions. I think on many levels it can give a subconscious credibility to the reader..."I heard about this on my local news, maybe this other thing is true too."

Twitter was going down the drain, until this election and Donald trump. Makes me wonder if he actually owns stock in it,


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-12-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
(03-12-2016 06:30 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  From: http://www.newslogue.com/debate/138

"It's becoming more and more acceptable in liberal circles to ignore all information that doesn't validate one's ideology, and it's making us all stupid.
Agree 75% Disagree 25%
We now live in a society where sources that don’t confirm one’s bias are immediately dismissed as “fake news”, and nothing is considered true unless Wolf Blitzer says it. This is killing political discourse in America, and it’s turning us all into idiots.

There's some truth to this (and it's true in "conservative circles" as well), but I'm doing my best to fight it. I'm a liberal, but a few days ago I went out and bought the latest issues of the Weekly Standard and the National Review (both conservative periodicals), and even subscribed to the latter (I got a pretty good deal: 24 issues for just over $24.00 -- single-issue price is $4.99). I want to hear what conservatives are saying, but I want to hear it from people who can think and write coherently and intelligently. Part of this is "know thine enemy", but I also want to give them a chance to make their case. Of course, I'm also buying the New York Times every day -- I want to hear what my side says as well.
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03-12-2016, 08:03 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy



Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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03-12-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
I'm guessing you've forgotten how the Republicans called Obama a NaZi back in 2010? Or maybe how the Republican Congress flat-out refused to consider his recent SCOTUS nominee -- an abdication of duty as well as political discourse? Much more dangerous to the Republic than the inability of some partisans to be sensible; after all, that logjam is in the corridors of power.
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03-12-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 06:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Is the thrust of this article, fake news is only fake depending on who says it?

Or in other words, if a "liberal" says something it's fake, but of a conservative says it, it's "not fake"?

Dodgy

No. But 95% of American media is left. I say that as a liberal.

The far-left majority is telling its consumers that media other than it is fake.

Yep. Fox, Breitbart, The Drudge Report, Wall Street Journal, etc. They're all only 5%. Everything else is a bastion of liberal bias.

Sure they are dipshit, sure they are. Tell me again just how oppressed the conservatives are. Drinking Beverage

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03-12-2016, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2016 01:50 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(03-12-2016 06:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Is the thrust of this article, fake news is only fake depending on who says it?

Or in other words, if a "liberal" says something it's fake, but of a conservative says it, it's "not fake"?

Dodgy

No. But 95% of American media is left. I say that as a liberal.

The far-left majority is telling its consumers that media other than it is fake.

I don't really care whether the majority of the media is either conservative or liberal so much as I care that what they're reporting is factual or not. This should be the core of what the American public is concerned about. Because beyond that it doesn't matter. If we simply will not accept the facts but rather will only accept a point of view because it confirms opinions we already hold, we're swimming in deep and dangerous waters. That being said, and all things being equal, the steering on the batshitmobile consistently veers more to the right than to the left. Conservative media outlets have consistently been proven to distribute false or misleading information over 40% of the time whereas more traditional, or liberal, media outlets are disseminating false information only about 25% of the time. This situation is not helped by the fact that many news organizations are being purchased by large corporations who are actively determining the content of what is distributed in the news. The 1976 movie Network got it right.





And mad as a hatter he may be, Howard Beale was right too.





Hell I want every goddamned one of you to go out and watch that movie right now because I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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03-12-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: The "Fake news" conspiracy
@Gilgamesh

Does this post means that you will provide proofs and explantion for your belief in a conspiracy theory that involves Clinton, the Democrat Party, the White House and a pedophile ring like you said you would two days ago? I'm still waiting for you to do so. I understand you are sick and tired to explain and prove yourself and that you fear you are going to be dismissed on the ground that your sources are impossible to validate, but its a necessary process in any debate else you are locking you in your own echo chamber and holding on only to the information that confirms your beliefs and biases... funny, this sound familiar.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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