The Foundations Of Our Faith.
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07-12-2016, 03:26 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  [...] Faith is a good thing to have, but you have to much faith, and it blinds you brothers. I did say I would stop trying to convince people of conspiracy theories, and I am done with that.

There are actually two equally correct definitions of "faith", and you're erroneously conflating them: complete trust or confidence in somebody or something based on empirical evidence, and a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than any evidence.

(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Because if you try proving or disproving a god, you'll always end up in a stalemate because a god can not be proved or disproved.

Not exactly correct. The people who believe in a god or gods must logically prove that entity's existence with empirical evidence—otherwise it's a non-argument from the get go. It's definitely not the task of the naysayers (in this case atheists) to prove that gods do not exist. That's a silly as expecting theists to prove that unicorns or leprechauns don't exist. Can't be done.

(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  A person's beliefs in a conspiracy is certainly a lot like a person's belief in a god.

Agree totally. Both based entirely on misrepresentation of facts, distortions and/or lack of viable evidence, wishful thinking, disbelief in coincidences, imaginary secret cabals, and divisive political agendas.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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07-12-2016, 03:31 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
The CW, reminds me of this famous quote by Wilde.

"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, the young know everything."

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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07-12-2016, 03:47 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 03:26 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  [...] Faith is a good thing to have, but you have to much faith, and it blinds you brothers. I did say I would stop trying to convince people of conspiracy theories, and I am done with that.

There are actually two equally correct definitions of "faith", and you're erroneously conflating them: complete trust or confidence in somebody or something based on empirical evidence, and a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than any evidence.

(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Because if you try proving or disproving a god, you'll always end up in a stalemate because a god can not be proved or disproved.

Not exactly correct. The people who believe in a god or gods must logically prove that entity's existence with empirical evidence—otherwise it's a non-argument from the get go. It's definitely not the task of the naysayers (in this case atheists) to prove that gods do not exist. That's a silly as expecting theists to prove that unicorns or leprechauns don't exist. Can't be done.

(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  A person's beliefs in a conspiracy is certainly a lot like a person's belief in a god.

Agree totally. Both based entirely on misrepresentation of facts, distortions and/or lack of viable evidence, wishful thinking, disbelief in coincidences, imaginary secret cabals, and divisive political agendas.

What if I told you, its not always a coincidence. White couple have a black child together... its not going to be 'just a coincidence' that sort of logic is just... wishful thinking. Same way with a 'virgin birth'.

divisive political agendas IE divide and conquer, its as old as the Romans. And cabals, you obviously never heard about the Mafia. The Russian Mafia, the Italian mafia oh yes they are very real. The Mexican drug cartel, but somehow the CIA is the most purest uncorrupted organization on the planet? If that is the case, why the hell is anything classified information?
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07-12-2016, 04:08 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

Plan 9 from outer space. Dodgy

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07-12-2016, 04:19 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 03:47 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  What if I told you, its not always a coincidence. White couple have a black child together... its not going to be 'just a coincidence' that sort of logic is just... wishful thinking. Same way with a 'virgin birth'.

Uh... of course things aren't always a coincidence duh. But often they are—such as the "star" of Bethlehem being confused with the appearance of Halley's comet in 11 BCE. Some researchers believe that the birth of Christ may have been as early as 7 BCE, so who's gonna argue over 4 years in a time span of 2,000?

(07-12-2016 03:47 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And cabals, you obviously never heard about the Mafia. The Russian Mafia, the Italian mafia oh yes they are very real.

Your reading skills aren't all that good are they? You obviously missed the salient word I used talking about cabals. "Imagined". Please try harder.

And can I suggest you read up on the Dunning-Kruger syndrome as I have a sneaking suspicion it may apply in your case.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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07-12-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

His name is Celestial Wanker, and he seems to be the great masturbator in the sky. (And don't eat the sticky snow!)

Seriously, he's some young high school kid who thinks he knows it all, but has trouble even understanding the questions put to him—let alone providing cogent answers LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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07-12-2016, 06:48 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(06-12-2016 07:20 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  See this is why I don't try to joke, because people take it seriously.

A better reason is because you suck at it.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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07-12-2016, 06:59 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 04:08 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

Plan 9 from outer space. Dodgy

More like Plan 0.1.

(07-12-2016 04:24 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

His name is Celestial Wanker, and he seems to be the great masturbator in the sky. (And don't eat the sticky snow!)

Seriously, he's some young high school kid who thinks he knows it all, but has trouble even understanding the questions put to him—let alone providing cogent answers LOL.

Oh to be young.....

I remember the days of my carefree youth, skipping amongst the daffodils.....

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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07-12-2016, 08:16 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I am in Bold below. Italics mine.

(06-12-2016 05:58 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Believe it or not I have been observing how my conversations have been going since I joined.

You put thought into this?

So a lot of people here disagree with some of the things I believe. Its been a learning experience, and I believe I now know why they disagree with me so vehemently.

Do you do that at parties? I mean, read people's minds and learn their thoughts?

All of you have faith. Not in the government no, but of something much more biblical.

There is a worldwide central government? Hang on mate, are you talking about those old blokes in that 007 satire knock off? Kingsmen??? Consider

If so, the bible reference is where...?

If not, I am fascinated and holding my breath. (This had better be good)


Is a religion a religion if it is not recognized even by those who adhere to it?

I fail to see how this sentence is at all connected to that above it.

I'm kind of let down mate. Just walked up behind me and poured salt into my beer.

(BTW the answer is, yes.)

Bloody hell. Hmmm, what does our devilish protagonist have for us next?


Feminism used to be a very powerful movement that didn't have so much negativity attached to it, but people took it to the extreme... and it gained a horrid reputation.

Now I am reminded of terrible books written on history I was silly enough to read.

I've noticed, in my observations of debates here and elsewhere, the nature of humanity keeps coming up as a way to discredit conspiracies. 'they'd talk, the government is to incompetent' etc.

Where do you hang out???

The people I know are like "Check out the arse on that blonde!"


Humanism. Like feminism, humanism is a good thing, I myself am a humanist. But if taken to the extreme those who adhere to it will end up like the extreme feminists. Humanism is where your faith lays, and it is in humanism which I must attack before you even start to consider believing in conspiracy theories.

Like that myth about Jesus?

This came to me, when I was discussing things with socialistview. He was trying to prove his religion to all of us by using the bible. I told him, he needed to first convince us that a god existed.

Fair enough.

But I know full well when debating with a Christian, the bible is the primary target to show them the contradictions of their faith. Because if you try proving or disproving a god, you'll always end up in a stalemate because a god can not be proved or disproved.

It seems the above paragraph's point was stated in that above it?

That's what I was doing, I was trying to disprove a god to everyone, when I really actually needed to start with the bible, your bible. The nature of humans themselves.

Who is this your of whom you speak?

Faith is a good thing to have, but you have to much faith, and it blinds you brothers. I did say I would stop trying to convince people of conspiracy theories, and I am done with that.

So, you're just leaving out the girls?

But I never said anything about disproving your bible. Not in this thread no, but in another one when I am well and ready, and less tired. Now that I think about it though, I suppose you could say rehabilitation is a lot like faith healing its not so bad for minor ailments, but both of them have dire consequences when the ailment is severe enough.

Mate, you sound like me when I'm on the 25 grand of experimental drugs per week.

Right turn. No indicator, no notice no nothin'.

After that turn I no longer know where I am?


Likewise god is like a conspiracy theory because no matter how much evidence you have, like the theory of evolution, biology, anthropology, and the static universe theory etc. People still somehow believe in a god, particularly the gods of the religion they were raised with, which of course was a form of indoctrination. A person's beliefs in a conspiracy is certainly a lot like a person's belief in a god.

Redundant.

I can not expect immediate results if this is the case, it took me years to overcome the hurdle of religion, slowly and surely though my old faith was eroded away. So it is a war of patience which I must contend with... and I am a patient man. Or at least I try to be.

That was pretty confusing, dude. Blink

BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

I'm guessing sock puppet of Heywood Jablohme (not sure about the spelling, but you know who I mean).
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07-12-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: The Foundations Of Our Faith.
(07-12-2016 08:16 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 01:42 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I am in Bold below. Italics mine.


That was pretty confusing, dude. Blink

BTW, guys, who is this bloke?

I'm guessing sock puppet of Heywood Jablohme (not sure about the spelling, but you know who I mean).

I keep on telling people I'm not Heywood :\
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