The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
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17-11-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
About the "beautification":
Men and women equally groom themselves and try to look their best. Just in different ways because the beauty standard is not just dictated by reproductive fitness anymore. Nowadays we can add different ways of advertising to them.
Men to look muscular, often a beard, strong hands, etc
Women to look sweet, soft, curvy, young, etc
So different products and services are available. But both do groom to appeal to the other sex.

About the personal relationship with gender and sex etc:
I agree and disagree at the same time. Some of the relationship with gender and sex is coming from education. The things we learn from our surrounding while we are young and also what our parents and schools are explicitly teaching us. Certain ways of clothing, behaviours, typical interests etc
But even people who grow up being taught well so to say, might still feel deep inside that this is not them. They are playing a role that has been assigned to them and they don't always agree with it.
And that being said, I want to make very clear that being trans is as much of a choice as being gay. If someone is trans, it is not "this boy wants to be a girl" / "this girl wants to be a boy". They are that gender.

I also want to call out this stupid new trend of raising kids "non binary". Dafuq. Come on, I am all for equal chances and equal opportunities. But the idea of forbidding certain toys or making a point of buying toys for your kids that just don't suit them or dress them a certain way just because the parent has an agenda is stupid and almost as bad as religion. Yes kids should be allowed to explore their identity, but they should be able to do that without being pushed. If I have a son who wishes to be a princess for halloween, sure thing and if he wants to go to kindergarten in a skirt I will let him do that. It's all normal developmental steps for children. Exploring sexuality and identity is part of growing up.

See me being trans myself, I wouldn't wish this on my kids (which I may have at some point) and I hope they will be fine no matter what but I really don't want them to live in a constant identity crisis the way I do. It is draining and it is doing bad things to the mind. So whenever I start producing offspring (that female body of mine is at least good for that Tongue ) I will make very sure that my children don't ever feel bad for who they are EVER.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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17-11-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
(17-11-2016 06:04 PM)Leela Wrote:  I also want to call out this stupid new trend of raising kids "non binary". Dafuq. Come on, I am all for equal chances and equal opportunities. But the idea of forbidding certain toys or making a point of buying toys for your kids that just don't suit them or dress them a certain way just because the parent has an agenda is stupid and almost as bad as religion.

That's what I found to be really tough about being a parent (I became a father earlier this year). You will always steer your child by exposing them to certain games, habits, passion, behaviors and beliefs. I don't think you can be a parent "without an agenda". Even with a child as young as mine, I can already see my influence, that of her mother and our environment on her.

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17-11-2016, 07:19 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
(17-11-2016 06:59 PM)epronovost Wrote:  That's what I found to be really tough about being a parent (I became a father earlier this year). You will always steer your child by exposing them to certain games, habits, passion, behaviors and beliefs. I don't think you can be a parent "without an agenda". Even with a child as young as mine, I can already see my influence, that of her mother and our environment on her.
I understand what you are saying. My point was basically just to be reasonable. I don't want to use my child (whenever the time comes) as a social experiment or to make a point. Normal educational things are just that, normal.
Of course you influence your child, even very young ones. They copy your behaviours and opinions at least for a while. But I think there is a difference between pushing an agenda on the child and just influencing it in a healthy way. Congratulations btw. I hope you are getting some sleep with such a young child.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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17-11-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
I'm planning on letting my kids be free in expressing themselves. I want them to live their truth--whatever that is for them.
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17-11-2016, 08:33 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
Like others have mentioned, society and culture dictate social norms for males/females. However, I think with transgender individuals (and correct me if I'm wrong) it has more to do with the mind and feeling that they were not born into the correct body. Due to that, I would think it would have little to do with social norms and more to do with feeling out of place in their own body. Either way, we get one life to live and people should live it being happy and living the way they want to. Screw social norms.
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18-11-2016, 05:18 AM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
(17-11-2016 08:33 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Like others have mentioned, society and culture dictate social norms for males/females.

That and 2 million+ years of evolution.

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23-11-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
(15-09-2016 08:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I often hear statements like, “A boy born in a girl’s body, or vice versa, from transgender individuals, and their supporters, and others, but it doesn’t seem to make much sense. It seems to be suggestive of aspects of being born a boy or a girl, separate from the physical body distinction, that one is born with. The non-body properties of being a girl/boy here seem a bit unknown to me. What are the non-body properties of being a girl, or a boy? It’s clearly not a matter of sexual attraction.

Much of it seems to be a cultural/social contract, such as growing your hair long, wearing makeup, or high heels and dresses, and a preference for traditional male/female roles. A sort of socially constructed gender identity rather than a biological one. I don’t think many here would suggest that a desire to wear dresses, makeup, heels, to have long curly hair is biological.

Imagine an alternative society in which men wore makeup and dresses, and women dressed like men traditionally have. All the culturally constructed roles associated with each gender is switched. Would we expect that the “boy born into a girl’s body” in our society, would feel the same way if they were born into our alternative one?

Would a traditional male gender type in our society, who relocated to the alternative one, but felt uncomfortable identifying as the male type in this alternative society, because of his own social/cultural inclinations be transgender? Particularly if he continued to associate himself with the gender roles, and inclinations of his previous society.

*****As a disclaimer, this topic is apolitical, amoral, it has nothing to do with LGBT rights, or the morality of it. I personally lean more to the left on the issue, and don’t care what bathrooms people want to use, whether consenting adults wanna get married, or whatever sort of ways a person wants to carve out his/her identity.

I’m just curious about the question here, not just in relationship to transgender, but even when it comes to myself and others. What comprises maleness, beyond physical attributes, and the social/biological distinctions of ones gender identity here.

The thread is not for the sake of debate, or an argument, because I don’t have one. I’m just curious to hear other people's views here.

Well if you really want my two cents, it could have something to do with the XXY chromosome. But honestly I wouldn't know, it could be attributed to a myriad of things and there probably isn't just one sole cause.
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23-11-2016, 09:04 PM
RE: The Girl born in a Boy’s body.
*rubs hands together*

I thought it would be good to put my 2 cents in as a trans person.

Even among trans people, the "boy/girl in a girl's/boy's body" narrative can be quite controversial. Different people have different views on gender and what makes someone trans. Some have a looser view of transgenderism: Being transgender is simply identifying as something other than what you were assigned at birth. Usually, people who subscribe to this view do not like to give parts genders and thus do not like the phrase "boy in a girl's body." On the other hand, some people have a stricter view of transgenderism: Someone must have gender dysphoria in order to be transgender. Many people with this view are fine with the body having gender and may be fine with the "girl in a boy's body" type narrative. Transgenderism is viewed as a medical condition. It's related to how the brain developed.

Although it's controversial, I think the second definition is much easier to explain to those who do not experience gender dysphoria. I've heard people say, "What does it even to FEEL like a boy/girl?" Yes, social expectations can be *very* uncomfortable for trans people, but a big part of gender dysphoria is the body, regardless of what people think guys or girls should be like. Someone can be a really masculine person and still be a trans woman because of the discomfort with their male body and the desire to transition in some way.

"Imagine an alternative society in which men wore makeup and dresses, and women dressed like men traditionally have. All the culturally constructed roles associated with each gender is switched. Would we expect that the “boy born into a girl’s body” in our society, would feel the same way if they were born into our alternative one?"

Yes. I believe so because they would still have the same body.

"Would a traditional male gender type in our society, who relocated to the alternative one, but felt uncomfortable identifying as the male type in this alternative society, because of his own social/cultural inclinations be transgender? Particularly if he continued to associate himself with the gender roles, and inclinations of his previous society."

I don't think so. If he was, that would mean that, in our society, every tomboy is trans and that every feminine man is trans. That's just not the case.

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