The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-12-2012, 02:46 AM
The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
Eye-opening New York Times article by Frank Bruni about the lack of separation between church and state in the religion-ridden USA, particularly in the military:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/opinio...-glut.html

I knew about the Christian proselytizing that goes on at the Air Force Academy, but I didn't know the same kind of thing is happening at West Point. It's sickening--and scary. Eisenhower warned against the military-industrial complex, but the military-religious complex has the potential of doing even greater harm.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like cufflink's post
12-12-2012, 03:11 AM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
(12-12-2012 02:46 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Eye-opening New York Times article by Frank Bruni about the lack of separation between church and state in the religion-ridden USA, particularly in the military:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/opinio...-glut.html

I knew about the Christian proselytizing that goes on at the Air Force Academy, but I didn't know the same kind of thing is happening at West Point. It's sickening--and scary. Eisenhower warned against the military-industrial complex, but the military-religious complex has the potential of doing even greater harm.
I have very good reason to suspect that people that attended church with my former Navy Department Head (Commander) gave good evaluations to those that accepted his relentless invitations at Quarters (like a group role call, and briefing for the day for ye' land lubbers) were given higher evaluations for their attendance, and people like me, who didn't go to church or pray were given lower ones. I couldn't prove it, and knowing the evaluations of your peers is a no-no (though it isn't unusual) so I couldn't do anything about it. Didn't let it slow me down though, I advanced through the ranks faster than he did, and everyone else I ever worked with for that matter. You are required (in the Navy, probably other branches as well) to bow your head and close your eyes during some mandatory prayer, I did so in boot camp, at a ships commissioning ceremony, a couple of retirement ceremonies, and many fallen comrade ceremonies/funerals. I didn't mind doing that though, I just saw it as showing respect. I wasn't asked to pray, just bow my head. Another thing I have been required to do is sing 'The Navy Hymn', which, as one would probably presume, is about God's role in the Navy and the life and death of sailors. I didn't really mind that either, just because it is more traditional than anything else, though it should be optional. It isn't just Atheists who should be considered, the entire song very specifically about the Christian god...and the Holy Trinity, so Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons and other flavors of heretics as well. Here is the url from the USN's website http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq53-1.htm

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dark Light's post
12-12-2012, 07:46 AM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
The surprising part is that you are surprised by this.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 11:28 AM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
(12-12-2012 03:11 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 02:46 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Eye-opening New York Times article by Frank Bruni about the lack of separation between church and state in the religion-ridden USA, particularly in the military:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/opinio...-glut.html

I knew about the Christian proselytizing that goes on at the Air Force Academy, but I didn't know the same kind of thing is happening at West Point. It's sickening--and scary. Eisenhower warned against the military-industrial complex, but the military-religious complex has the potential of doing even greater harm.
I have very good reason to suspect that people that attended church with my former Navy Department Head (Commander) gave good evaluations to those that accepted his relentless invitations at Quarters (like a group role call, and briefing for the day for ye' land lubbers) were given higher evaluations for their attendance, and people like me, who didn't go to church or pray were given lower ones. I couldn't prove it, and knowing the evaluations of your peers is a no-no (though it isn't unusual) so I couldn't do anything about it. Didn't let it slow me down though, I advanced through the ranks faster than he did, and everyone else I ever worked with for that matter. You are required (in the Navy, probably other branches as well) to bow your head and close your eyes during some mandatory prayer, I did so in boot camp, at a ships commissioning ceremony, a couple of retirement ceremonies, and many fallen comrade ceremonies/funerals. I didn't mind doing that though, I just saw it as showing respect. I wasn't asked to pray, just bow my head. Another thing I have been required to do is sing 'The Navy Hymn', which, as one would probably presume, is about God's role in the Navy and the life and death of sailors. I didn't really mind that either, just because it is more traditional than anything else, though it should be optional. It isn't just Atheists who should be considered, the entire song very specifically about the Christian god...and the Holy Trinity, so Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons and other flavors of heretics as well. Here is the url from the USN's website http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq53-1.htm

Thanks for sharing your first-hand experiences. I'm glad you were able to advance in the Navy without attending church. (The previous sentence sounds like it came from some comic's stand-up routine.)

The Navy Hymn is quite a beautiful piece of music--I can hear it in my head as I write this. But let me get this straight: As a U.S. sailor, you were required to sing about Christ and the Trinity? Jewish sailors and Muslim sailors and atheist/agnostic sailors are all required to sing about the Christian god? Jesus . . . Sadcryface

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
I watched recently a documentary on Netflix that was more or less on this topic about how evangelical Christians are going after military to more or less force Christianity.

I wish I could recall the name tho. Undecided


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
When I was in the Army, especially during training, a lot of people attended services just to have something to do on Sunday mornings. I really didn't have much exposure to religion talk when I was in.
The only comment I remember was when a drill saw a picture of my younger daughter and her bright red cheeks he asked if they were "mother made or God made", to which I responded "weather made". That was the only thing I remember other than one woman who was a sun worshipper, religion wasn't much of an issue.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
12-12-2012, 03:59 PM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
(12-12-2012 11:28 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Thanks for sharing your first-hand experiences. I'm glad you were able to advance in the Navy without attending church. (The previous sentence sounds like it came from some comic's stand-up routine.)

The Navy Hymn is quite a beautiful piece of music--I can hear it in my head as I write this. But let me get this straight: As a U.S. sailor, you were required to sing about Christ and the Trinity? Jewish sailors and Muslim sailors and atheist/agnostic sailors are all required to sing about the Christian god? Jesus . . . Sadcryface
Well, I can think of two occasions in which it was required, but it is possible that I was being told to do something despite the fact that it was against regulation to do so. If that is the case than thousands of others were being told to same thing though. I was on a carrier, which I don't need to tell you, has a lot of people. One two occasions when I was stationed there all folks not on watch were supposed to sing it. Both times were at memorial services: First time a guy murdered one of his subordinates for fucking around with his wife Shocking , the other a senior sailor lost his battle with cancer. One of the services was even in a church on a nearby base, so yeah, we were required to go to a church, but I think they technically called it a chapel, though in reality it was a large (in comparison to the churches I attended as a child), and very Christian...it was a church.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2012, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 06:51 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
I was an open atheist in the Navy back in the early 80's. Never experienced even a whiff of discrimination and always got top ratings. Hell even the chaplain would counsel atheists without proselytizing, demeaning or even questioning them. Sorry to read that it is has degenerated so much since then. I think the current sense of fanaticism is just the last frantic, violent death throes of a dying system (like literally - a third of the US population under 30 is religiously unaffiliated).

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
12-12-2012, 07:15 PM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
I have no frame of reference. I never joined the military because they wouldn't let me in their fox holes.

This talk of military and religion reminds me of Full Metal Jacket:

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, do you believe in the Virgin Mary?
Private Joker: Sir, no, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Well, well, Private Joker, I don't believe I heard you correctly!
Private Joker: Sir, the private said "no, sir," sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Why you little maggot, you make me want to vomit!
[slaps Joker]
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: You Goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary, or I'm gonna stomp your guts out! Now you DO love the Virgin Mary, don't ya?
Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, are you trying to offend me?
Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir! Sir, the private believes any answer he gives will be wrong and the Senior Drill Instructor will only beat him harder if he reverses himself, SIR!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Who's your squad leader, scumbag?
Private Joker: Sir, the squad leader is Private Snowball, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball!
Private Snowball: Sir, Private Snowball reporting as ordered, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball, you're fired. Private Joker's promoted to squad leader.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Aseptic Skeptic's post
13-12-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: The "God Glut" in the U.S. Military
(12-12-2012 07:15 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I have no frame of reference. I never joined the military because they wouldn't let me in their fox holes.

This talk of military and religion reminds me of Full Metal Jacket:

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, do you believe in the Virgin Mary?
Private Joker: Sir, no, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Well, well, Private Joker, I don't believe I heard you correctly!
Private Joker: Sir, the private said "no, sir," sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Why you little maggot, you make me want to vomit!
[slaps Joker]
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: You Goddamn communist heathen, you had best sound off that you love the Virgin Mary, or I'm gonna stomp your guts out! Now you DO love the Virgin Mary, don't ya?
Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker, are you trying to offend me?
Private Joker: Sir, NEGATIVE, sir! Sir, the private believes any answer he gives will be wrong and the Senior Drill Instructor will only beat him harder if he reverses himself, SIR!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Who's your squad leader, scumbag?
Private Joker: Sir, the squad leader is Private Snowball, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball!
Private Snowball: Sir, Private Snowball reporting as ordered, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Snowball, you're fired. Private Joker's promoted to squad leader.
The name of Private Snowball in the English translation of the German translation of the English version is "Private Snow White" (Private Schneewittchen). I think that name is even more insulting and ironical than the original one. Smile

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: