The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
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21-10-2012, 12:08 AM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2012 12:14 AM by TheJackal.)
The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
As we know, there are many concepts of GOD to which include the Christian's idea of a GOD that supposedly created "everything", or as some how the source origin to all that exists. And then there are other examples such as the Pantheist GOD to which comes in a form, one of many, to which I will reference here. Hence some Pantheists see existence itself as the source origin, and as the Universal set of all sets to everything that is in and of existence. Hence existence itself being the very entity from which all things derive from. So in their context, Existence is the totality of all that exists as well as causality itself. Hence Existence is Causality and Reality itself as every force to cause, source origin of all there is, and every person, place, object, substance, or thing in and of existence. Under this context, existence is seen as a self-generating system capable of generating universes, stars, galaxies, planets, life, and conscious beings such as ourselves. It's an amazing thing, and almost supernatural as some might say! But it is not supernatural, It is the natural answer to the deepest questions of all.. Why are we here?, and where did we come from? And that answer has been starring humanity, us, in the face as it is everything around us, as well as in us, and literally as us.. "I am" in and of existence, and so are you.

It's simple to understand since Existence is stated here as Causality just as it is Reality itself. And Existence simply exists without creation due to the likely fact that non-existence can not ever actually and literally exist as an existing person, place, object, substance, or thing. Thus existence solves infinite regress, and represents a Universal set of all sets even if we don't, in science or philosophy, fully understand every aspect of it and how it works. And we all know how Christians love simplicity since it's hard to think.. So the answer to all things is simple:

Existence!

So this leads us to two questions that Christians will have a very hard time answering without self-refuting their position, or pandering to require the Pantheist GOD to which is that of existence itself. And these two questions are interconnected or in conjunction with each other to express why the concept of GOD is moot. So what are these two simple questions that utterly collapse the concept of GOD? Well, lets find out shall we?:

Here I present my two questions:
Quote:What is GOD without existence?
And if Existence is not GOD, what of existence are we to consider as GOD?

Getting a Christian to answer the first question is rather amusing, but getting them to answer the second one in relation to the first one is even more amusing.. Especially when consciousness can't exist without cause, or that no sentient / conscious entity can create that which themselves are slave to require in order to function or exist at all.. Hence, no conscious entity could ever solve infinite regress, or represent a Universal set of all sets. This means that no being with a conscious mind could ever represent to origins to existence since the only thing that can do that, and represent that, is Existence itself. Thus all things including conscious beings are emergent properties of existence itself, and all things are governed by existence and what-ever it's rules are to which make up the foundation and essence of all there was, is, or ever will be.

Its thus nonsensical to say that I should consider another part of existence as GOD as that would be existence worshiping another part of itself as GOD. And if existence is GOD, that makes everything GOD.. And if Existence is not GOD, that invalidates anything of existence as GOD by consequence. Thus the concept of GOD is moot since you can't move the GOD goal post any higher than existence itself.

Post note:

This doesn't even go into the complexity in regards to cognitive systems theory to which would be required to support a conscious state in the first place, or even in regards to information science and theory... Wink
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21-10-2012, 12:11 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
Actual hardest questions:

Would you worship god without the promise of heaven?
Would you worship god without the threat of hell?

Every time I've asked those they just get mad and end the conversation.


Of course, I was asking them to Jehovah's Witnesses at Panera, and other people nearby, so that might have had something to do with it.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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21-10-2012, 12:13 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
(21-10-2012 12:11 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Actual hardest questions:

Would you worship god without the promise of heaven?
Would you worship god without the threat of hell?

Every time I've asked those they just get mad and end the conversation.


Of course, I was asking them to Jehovah's Witnesses at Panera, and other people nearby, so that might have had something to do with it.

Those....are fucking brilliant. I will need to remember those.

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21-10-2012, 12:29 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
(21-10-2012 12:08 AM)TheJackal Wrote:  As we know, there are many concepts of GOD to which include the Christian's idea of a GOD that supposedly created "everything", or as some how the source origin to all that exists. And then there are other examples such as the Pantheist GOD to which comes in a form, one of many, to which I will reference here. Hence some Pantheists see existence itself as the source origin, and as the Universal set of all sets to everything that is in and of existence. Hence existence itself being the very entity from which all things derive from. So in their context, Existence is the totality of all that exists as well as causality itself. Hence Existence is Causality and Reality itself as every force to cause, source origin of all there is, and every person, place, object, substance, or thing in and of existence. Under this context, existence is seen as a self-generating system capable of generating universes, stars, galaxies, planets, life, and conscious beings such as ourselves. It's an amazing thing, and almost supernatural as some might say! But it is not supernatural, It is the natural answer to the deepest questions of all.. Why are we here?, and where did we come from? And that answer has been starring humanity, us, in the face as it is everything around us, as well as in us, and literally as us.. "I am" in and of existence, and so are you.

It's simple to understand since Existence is stated here as Causality just as it is Reality itself. And Existence simply exists without creation due to the likely fact that non-existence can not ever actually and literally exist as an existing person, place, object, substance, or thing. Thus existence solves infinite regress, and represents a Universal set of all sets even if we don't, in science or philosophy, fully understand every aspect of it and how it works. And we all know how Christians love simplicity since it's hard to think.. So the answer to all things is simple:

Existence!

So this leads us to two questions that Christians will have a very hard time answering without self-refuting their position, or pandering to require the Pantheist GOD to which is that of existence itself. And these two questions are interconnected or in conjunction with each other to express why the concept of GOD is moot. So what are these two simple questions that utterly collapse the concept of GOD? Well, lets find out shall we?:

Here I present my two questions:
Quote:What is GOD without existence?
And if Existence is not GOD, what of existence are we to consider as GOD?

Getting a Christian to answer the first question is rather amusing, but getting them to answer the second one in relation to the first one is even more amusing.. Especially when consciousness can't exist without cause, or that no sentient / conscious entity can create that which themselves are slave to require in order to function or exist at all.. Hence, no conscious entity could ever solve infinite regress, or represent a Universal set of all sets. This means that no being with a conscious mind could ever represent to origins to existence since the only thing that can do that, and represent that, is Existence itself. Thus all things including conscious beings are emergent properties of existence itself, and all things are governed by existence and what-ever it's rules are to which make up the foundation and essence of all there was, is, or ever will be.

Its thus nonsensical to say that I should consider another part of existence as GOD as that would be existence worshiping another part of itself as GOD. And if existence is GOD, that makes everything GOD.. And if Existence is not GOD, that invalidates anything of existence as GOD by consequence. Thus the concept of GOD is moot since you can't move the GOD goal post any higher than existence itself.

Post note:

This doesn't even go into the complexity in regards to cognitive systems theory to which would be required to support a conscious state in the first place, or even in regards to information science and theory... Wink


Agree, with the two questions, not that they are "the most difficult". I would say it a bit differently. Existence is not Causality if god is intentional, "Causality", (if the word has any "meaning content" (linguistically), requires absolute linear time. THAT is the most difficult ONE question: "Name one property of existence which does NOT require time". (A god cannot be the creator of that which is required for it's existence".

If "Existence is Causality", then the question is "why is THAT the structure", (and NOT something else). That IS a structure. That does not solve infinite regress, unless you Special Plead it out.

We are saying the same thing in a different way, I think.

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21-10-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
(21-10-2012 12:11 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Actual hardest questions:

Would you worship god without the promise of heaven?
Would you worship god without the threat of hell?

Every time I've asked those they just get mad and end the conversation.


Of course, I was asking them to Jehovah's Witnesses at Panera, and other people nearby, so that might have had something to do with it.

Actually not.. The questions I had can be attributed to everything including your own.. What are questions without existence? What is hell without existence? What is anything at all without existence?

Thus any promise is empty if such object of the promise is non-existent..
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21-10-2012, 12:38 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
The problem is that your questions are too "deep". 99% of Christians will hear your questions, try to muddle through them for a few seconds, then wave them away as just satanic mumbo-jumbo. Simpler, more direct questions that target the primary emotional reasons for faith (such as fear of death (heaven) and the desire for judgement/revenge (hell)) are much more effective.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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21-10-2012, 12:47 AM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2012 12:50 AM by TheJackal.)
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
Quote:Agree, with the two questions, not that they are "the most difficult". I would say it a bit differently. Existence is not Causality if god is intentional, "Causality", (if the word has any "meaning content" (linguistically), requires absolute linear time. THAT is the most difficult ONE question: "Name one property of existence which does NOT require time". (A god cannot be the creator of that which is required for it's existence".

Existence has not limitation on time giving non-existence can not literally exist.. And saying existence is not causality makes no sense as you can not have causality without existence. And time would be a fundamental consequence or property of consequence of existence. Btw, no time in science would be just a static state of existence with no inertia of information or energy, and in that state you can't have consciousness as a conscious state requires the inertia of information. However, such a state would not be the absence of time literally, just the lack of inertia of information / energy.


Quote:If "Existence is Causality", then the question is "why is THAT the structure", (and NOT something else). That IS a structure. That does not solve infinite regress, unless you Special Plead it out.

Because non-existence can not exist as an existing person, place, object, substance, or thing. And anything else of existence would still be of existence itself.. Structure is Existence, and it can be no other way.. And yes it does solve infinite regress because the answer to anything regarding that which is in and of existence will involve existence itself no matter what.

Technically speaking, me and you are literallyt existence having a discussion with itself.
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21-10-2012, 12:52 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
(21-10-2012 12:38 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The problem is that your questions are too "deep". 99% of Christians will hear your questions, try to muddle through them for a few seconds, then wave them away as just satanic mumbo-jumbo. Simpler, more direct questions that target the primary emotional reasons for faith (such as fear of death (heaven) and the desire for judgement/revenge (hell)) are much more effective.


Ask them to praise existence for their GOD so they can be saved lol.. Oh...existence trying to save itself Tongue However, you make quite a valid point..
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21-10-2012, 12:53 AM
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
Your questions are a paradox and unanswerable.

No one can answer that, Christian or not.

It's along the same lines as the God-Rock paradox. The paradox redefines omnipotence; therefore, it renders the answers moot.

If omnipotence is to be obeyed, then the paradox can simply not exist - as the paradox itself is impossible - if omnipotence is retained.

Not really that hard to answer.

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21-10-2012, 01:00 AM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2012 01:04 AM by TheJackal.)
RE: The Hardest 2 questions you could ever ask a Christian.
(21-10-2012 12:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Your questions are a paradox and unanswerable.

No one can answer that, Christian or not.

It's along the same lines as the God-Rock paradox. The paradox redefines omnipotence; therefore, it renders the answers moot.

If omnipotence is to be obeyed, then the paradox can simply not exist - as the paradox itself is impossible - if omnipotence is retained.

Not really that hard to answer.

It is a paradox, but they are answerable.. In regards to question 1, "what is god without existence", it would be correctly answered as:

Quote:Irrelevant, pointless, meaningless, simply non-existent, or at best nothing more than a figment of ones own imagination. Hence, an answer Christians will avoid at all costs..

The second question is also answerable as I had actually given it in the OP :

Quote: And if existence is GOD, that makes everything GOD.. And if Existence is not GOD, that invalidates anything of existence as GOD by consequence.
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