The Homosexual Agenda
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26-07-2013, 04:47 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2013 04:51 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
Oh look, "Hey would ya blow me" is back to blow me. ... Consider ... it'd have to be through a Glory Hole.

(26-07-2013 04:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is not a shred of evidence that any two gay people hold the same opinions on anything, thus there could not possibly be "an" agenda.

Oh the gays have an agenda all right, they are the evangelists and prophets of The Fabulous. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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26-07-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 04:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Oh the gays have an agenda all right, they are the evangelists and prophets of The Fabulous. Big Grin

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26-07-2013, 05:38 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 04:22 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 03:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling me dense and would like to point out I never said there was a master plan. I see the homosexual agenda as an emergent process.

Do you know what emergent complexity is?

The fact that the homosexual agenda is emergent in no way diminishes its existence.

I do know what emergent means, and let me quote your definition of Agenda:

(25-07-2013 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  "underlying ideological plan or program"

plan, PLAN, that's the opposite of emergent:

wikipedia Wrote:A plan is typically any diagram or list of steps with timing and resources, used to achieve an objective.

By your own definitions, there can not be an homosexual agenda.

there're many overlapping interests among gay people, I've already said and acknowledged this, that leads to an increased social pressure from the gay community to change social behaviours towards homosexuals.

But that doesn't mean there is an organized and well defined set of goals, with steps, timing and resources to achieve them. There is no agenda, there is just social change.

let me name a few differences as you clearly can't see them:

Goals: In an agenda are defined by some organ with decisive powers. In a social emergent change, are not predefined but can be described by the overall direction of the mainstream interests.

Organization: Is needed for the existence and execution of an agenda. It only exists as a spontaneous and not necessarily continuous phenomenon in the current situation.

Steps, timing and resources: Are specifically determined in an agenda, usually defined and gathered by a centralized part of the organization.
In the real thing, there're no steps, achievements are made as opportunities rise and without a specific timing. There're no centralized resources.


There're probably more differences but I'd need more time to find them. I used your definition of agenda and your definition of your observation, you either acknowledge that your definitions are wrong, or that there isn't an agenda with the meaning you gave to the word.

Don't be dishonest

First, Sorry about being condescending by asking you knew what emergent complexity was. I was a little pissed at you for calling me dense....I guess I really didn't forgive you at that moment....although I tried.

Second, I use "gay agenda" or "homosexual agenda" because that is what was used in the original post, and it is often used to describe what I and others are observing. The definition I gave concerning agenda was at your request and although I didn't acknowledge it, I kinda agree with your "underlying tendency", but not quite.

The reason I don't agree with "underlying tendency" is because I do think people in positions of influence, do talk about promoting this cause. The book is evidence that these conversations exist. I do think there is some planning and organizing, and thought. It isn't centralized but it doesn't have to be. For instance the other day while my kids where watching some kid show, one of the child actors made a favorable homosexual reference. I thought to myself, "hmmm producers obviously thought they could get away with such a reference now". I don't think that producer called some centralized gay agenda steering committee to get approval, but I would bet he talked about it in a production meeting with his friends and co-workers.

If you guys don't like "agenda" call it a "movement", I really don't care...a name is a name. However I think it a silly to say it doesn't exist or that there isn't any planning or organizing or conversations going on about how to achieve social change.
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26-07-2013, 05:45 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 05:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you guys don't like "agenda" call it a "movement", I really don't care...a name is a name. However I think it a silly to say it doesn't exist or that there isn't any planning or organizing or conversations going on about how to achieve social change.

I call it fuckin' Fabulous. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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26-07-2013, 05:55 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 05:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 04:22 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I do know what emergent means, and let me quote your definition of Agenda:


plan, PLAN, that's the opposite of emergent:


By your own definitions, there can not be an homosexual agenda.

there're many overlapping interests among gay people, I've already said and acknowledged this, that leads to an increased social pressure from the gay community to change social behaviours towards homosexuals.

But that doesn't mean there is an organized and well defined set of goals, with steps, timing and resources to achieve them. There is no agenda, there is just social change.

let me name a few differences as you clearly can't see them:

Goals: In an agenda are defined by some organ with decisive powers. In a social emergent change, are not predefined but can be described by the overall direction of the mainstream interests.

Organization: Is needed for the existence and execution of an agenda. It only exists as a spontaneous and not necessarily continuous phenomenon in the current situation.

Steps, timing and resources: Are specifically determined in an agenda, usually defined and gathered by a centralized part of the organization.
In the real thing, there're no steps, achievements are made as opportunities rise and without a specific timing. There're no centralized resources.


There're probably more differences but I'd need more time to find them. I used your definition of agenda and your definition of your observation, you either acknowledge that your definitions are wrong, or that there isn't an agenda with the meaning you gave to the word.

Don't be dishonest

First, Sorry about being condescending by asking you knew what emergent complexity was. I was a little pissed at you for calling me dense....I guess I really didn't forgive you at that moment....although I tried.

Second, I use "gay agenda" or "homosexual agenda" because that is what was used in the original post, and it is often used to describe what I and others are observing. The definition I gave concerning agenda was at your request and although I didn't acknowledge it, I kinda agree with your "underlying tendency", but not quite.

The reason I don't agree with "underlying tendency" is because I do think people in positions of influence, do talk about promoting this cause. The book is evidence that these conversations exist. I do think there is some planning and organizing, and thought. It isn't centralized but it doesn't have to be. For instance the other day while my kids where watching some kid show, one of the child actors made a favorable homosexual reference. I thought to myself, "hmmm producers obviously thought they could get away with such a reference now". I don't think that producer called some centralized gay agenda steering committee to get approval, but I would bet he talked about it in a production meeting with his friends and co-workers.

If you guys don't like "agenda" call it a "movement", I really don't care...a name is a name. However I think it a silly to say it doesn't exist or that there isn't any planning or organizing or conversations going on about how to achieve social change.

A word is never just a word, in politics words are as close to magic spells as you can get. A wrong word said at the wrong time, can destroy entire careers and even make people live or die for the series of reactions they generate.

The use of the word "agenda" with its connotation of a planned and centralized organization, has a specific effect (even with intent) of undermining the sincerity of the intentions of gay people who strive for equality and acceptance.
When they say "gay marriage is just an item of the gay agenda" they're implying that homosexuals don't want to get the right to get married to enjoy equal rights and opportunities as heterosexuals, they're implying that they just want it for some immoral reason, usually to destroy the american way of living, because you know, gays are evil masterminds who want to destroy the world.

The word has political relevance and it can't be used without subjectivity. That's why I say there is no gay agenda, because the implications of that expression are not true. What you see on TV does exist, it happens, you may like it or not, but it is not part of an agenda, some of those representations are the result of the use of political influence obtained thought decades of activism, but they're not part of an organized plan.

Homosexuals, as an undetermined group of people, have no agenda. There're homosexuals with agendas of their own, but their agendas are not The Gay Agenda, there is no Gay Agenda.

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26-07-2013, 05:55 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 05:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 05:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you guys don't like "agenda" call it a "movement", I really don't care...a name is a name. However I think it a silly to say it doesn't exist or that there isn't any planning or organizing or conversations going on about how to achieve social change.

I call it fuckin' Fabulous. Tongue

embedded marketing, demonization, and child indoctrination is fabulous?
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26-07-2013, 06:03 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 05:55 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 05:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I call it fuckin' Fabulous. Tongue

embedded marketing, demonization, and child indoctrination is fabulous?

"Embedded marketing" is used by everyone. It's no worse or better in this case than any other, UNLESS your intent here is to demean THIS particular use of it, implying equal rights is morally corrupt in some way.

Who is being "demonized" ? People who wish to deny others equal rights ? Why shouldn't they be demonized ? Or are you assuming a moral superiority here ?
So you're saying people who fight discrimination should not be active at what they do ?

Provide proof of "child indoctrination" or STFU.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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26-07-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
(26-07-2013 05:55 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 05:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  First, Sorry about being condescending by asking you knew what emergent complexity was. I was a little pissed at you for calling me dense....I guess I really didn't forgive you at that moment....although I tried.

Second, I use "gay agenda" or "homosexual agenda" because that is what was used in the original post, and it is often used to describe what I and others are observing. The definition I gave concerning agenda was at your request and although I didn't acknowledge it, I kinda agree with your "underlying tendency", but not quite.

The reason I don't agree with "underlying tendency" is because I do think people in positions of influence, do talk about promoting this cause. The book is evidence that these conversations exist. I do think there is some planning and organizing, and thought. It isn't centralized but it doesn't have to be. For instance the other day while my kids where watching some kid show, one of the child actors made a favorable homosexual reference. I thought to myself, "hmmm producers obviously thought they could get away with such a reference now". I don't think that producer called some centralized gay agenda steering committee to get approval, but I would bet he talked about it in a production meeting with his friends and co-workers.

If you guys don't like "agenda" call it a "movement", I really don't care...a name is a name. However I think it a silly to say it doesn't exist or that there isn't any planning or organizing or conversations going on about how to achieve social change.

A word is never just a word, in politics words are as close to magic spells as you can get. A wrong word said at the wrong time, can destroy entire careers and even make people live or die for the series of reactions they generate.

The use of the word "agenda" with its connotation of a planned and centralized organization, has a specific effect (even with intent) of undermining the sincerity of the intentions of gay people who strive for equality and acceptance.
When they say "gay marriage is just an item of the gay agenda" they're implying that homosexuals don't want to get the right to get married to enjoy equal rights and opportunities as heterosexuals, they're implying that they just want it for some immoral reason, usually to destroy the american way of living, because you know, gays are evil masterminds who want to destroy the world.

The word has political relevance and it can't be used without subjectivity. That's why I say there is no gay agenda, because the implications of that expression are not true. What you see on TV does exist, it happens, you may like it or not, but it is not part of an agenda, some of those representations are the result of the use of political influence obtained thought decades of activism, but they're not part of an organized plan.

Homosexuals, as an undetermined group of people, have no agenda. There're homosexuals with agendas of their own, but their agendas are not The Gay Agenda, there is no Gay Agenda.

I don't have a problem calling it the "Homosexual Agenda". Sure there is no centralized planning or organization, but there is decentralized purposeful planning and organization that acts in tendency. I believe in collective intelligence and believe a collective intelligence is behind the actions I am observing. I don't see why a collective intelligence can't have an agenda.
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26-07-2013, 06:14 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2013 08:31 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
Oooooh it's the Borg.
We forgive you for saying that.
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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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26-07-2013, 06:15 PM
RE: The Homosexual Agenda
Blowme,
What are you, the trite, buzzword bearer?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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