Poll: Is The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 constitutional?
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The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
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04-08-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 12:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 11:54 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  When did you become so wishy-washy?

Bowing

They're both good arguments.Smartass

Me, I'd just beat the WBCers to death with a club.Drinking Beverage

AMEN!

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07-08-2012, 05:49 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2012 06:00 AM by NotSoVacuous.)
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 11:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  That's an excellent argument. Bowing

I think it's the privacy part that is central.
Thank you.


(04-08-2012 11:48 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 09:32 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

Your comparison is not accurate. There is a defined difference between allowing people to have their privacy and grievance for the dead respected, and an arbitrary restriction on protesting political matters that are open to the public already. Not to mention I think freedom from speech should trump peoples freedom of speech. I think we can agree it comes useful when we have idiots screaming in the streets outside of your apartment or blasting music at 5am.

Why funerals? It's a private matter. Not a public matter.
Why 2hrs? It might be an appropriate time frame to complete the ceremonies.
Why 300 yards? It might be the appropriate distance to not be a bother.
Why military? There statistically(I say this in reasonable cause, but per ignorance) is probably more of a reason these funerals need more protection, and in my opinion, deserve more respect considering their cause of death.

One is distinctly a private matter and the business of no one else, but immediate family and friends.

Then are you willing to change the constitution to reflect that freedom from speech is a constitutional right? You are now creating an interpretation that is not in the original document. Freedom of speech is not meant to be limited to Public concerns. There is no private/public division distinction made and despite the fact you don't like the term "slippery slope", it indeed is.

This act concerns me greatly and as much as I hate the WBCers actions, I see this simply as one more erosion to our civil freedoms that has been going on at least since the Patriot Act I.

Yes I would be willing to amend the Constitution to squeeze this in. To me there is a thing such as too much freedom. I think at the moment the majority of people are idiots and should be controlled better. If that stops me from the occasional protest--which I don't think it will--that doesn't accomplish much, then so be it, but I think a society where people can mourn in peace should be a priority.

As for your slippery slope defending, there is a line. My life, my family, and my friends attending our family/friend's funeral is our private matter. There is no possible way this can be construed; there is no wiggle room. The line of private/public property is drawn. WBC can go stick a dick in it because they were not invited. Just like they weren't invited to my BBQ.

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08-08-2012, 01:00 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
As someone who spent over 26 yr in the military, about half active duty and half guard/reserves, I am not in favor of this.
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08-08-2012, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2012 02:16 PM by Seasbury.)
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Count me in the minority.

10 years Active/Reserve Army and a career DoD civilian with a wife who's a career VA Nurse, I'm actually in favor of the law.

I don't see this as a limit on speech, although it does limit when and where speech occurs.

I know we all agree that WBC is, well, insane - but interfering in the funeral processions of private citizen-soldiers is wrong, however you want to look at it. Grieving families should not have to face their loss with a heaping of "God Hates" on top of it. 301 yards is close enough in my opinion - they still get to freely share their hate - just not when they would like.

I see the slippery slope, and in fact, there was another piece of bipartisan legislation passed in March without a peep that was far more insidious than this...

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/News/Pr...w_Illegal/

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08-08-2012, 05:01 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(08-08-2012 01:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  As someone who spent over 26 yr in the military, about half active duty and half guard/reserves, I am not in favor of this.

Why? Funerals are private events, and the Baptists are not invited. What if I came into your house and started telling you to die and go to hell?

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08-08-2012, 11:00 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(08-08-2012 05:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 01:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  As someone who spent over 26 yr in the military, about half active duty and half guard/reserves, I am not in favor of this.

Why? Funerals are private events, and the Baptists are not invited. What if I came into your house and started telling you to die and go to hell?


As long as the protestors are on public property and they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to protest anything they want.
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09-08-2012, 05:38 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(08-08-2012 11:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 05:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Why? Funerals are private events, and the Baptists are not invited. What if I came into your house and started telling you to die and go to hell?


As long as the protestors are on public property and they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to protest anything they want.





They are disturbing the peace, and that is the law they are breaking. (if you want to excuse the slander laws)

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09-08-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 05:38 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 11:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  As long as the protestors are on public property and they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to protest anything they want.





They are disturbing the peace, and that is the law they are breaking. (if you want to excuse the slander laws)

In that case, all protests are breaking the peace. The next law that is passed may restrict something you wish to protest. I absolutely hate the WBC morons but they also have a right to express their opinion. The best way to combat this type of bullshit is to shield them the way some MC's and other groups have.
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09-08-2012, 06:26 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(08-08-2012 11:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 05:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Why? Funerals are private events, and the Baptists are not invited. What if I came into your house and started telling you to die and go to hell?


As long as the protestors are on public property and they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to protest anything they want.

Most cemeteries are private property.

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09-08-2012, 07:10 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 05:47 AM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(09-08-2012 05:38 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  



They are disturbing the peace, and that is the law they are breaking. (if you want to excuse the slander laws)

In that case, all protests are breaking the peace. The next law that is passed may restrict something you wish to protest. I absolutely hate the WBC morons but they also have a right to express their opinion. The best way to combat this type of bullshit is to shield them the way some MC's and other groups have.

That only provokes violence.
It is not as if they no longer have the right to protest the funerals. They can come and protest over the grave all they want after the funeral's two hours are up.

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