Poll: Is The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 constitutional?
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The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
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09-08-2012, 07:49 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Help me here, because I am confused. No one here would be okay with people chanting and yelling outside their house at 5am. They would love for a cop to come and escort them off the property; however, if it is their funeral they don't want the cops to remove them?

I am going to need help here. What is the difference?

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09-08-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 07:49 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  Help me here, because I am confused. No one here would be okay with people chanting and yelling outside their house at 5am. They would love for a cop to come and escort them off the property; however, if it is their funeral they don't want the cops to remove them?

I am going to need help here. What is the difference?
The reason why some people argue that it's different is because the WBC is protesting on public property, whereas people yelling outside your house are doing it on private property. Other people however argue that most cemeteries are private property.

I don't get why the US government hasn't released a law forbidding to protest burials long ago. In Germany you can get up to three years of prison for interrupting a burial ceremony knowingly. I suppose this is another case of "Only in America".

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09-08-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 06:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 11:00 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  As long as the protestors are on public property and they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to protest anything they want.

Most cemeteries are private property.
As far as I understand it, WBC does not go onto cemetery property.
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09-08-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 07:49 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  Help me here, because I am confused. No one here would be okay with people chanting and yelling outside their house at 5am. They would love for a cop to come and escort them off the property; however, if it is their funeral they don't want the cops to remove them?

I am going to need help here. What is the difference?


And even if they were out on the street, there are noise ordinance laws in most residential areas sonthey actually could be sited for disturbing the peace.
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09-08-2012, 12:12 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Excuse the repost - but bickering over burial protests is nothing (repeat nothing) compared to law passed in March:

HR 347
`(a) Whoever--

1. knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
2. knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;
3. knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or
4. knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

`(b) The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is--

1. a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, if--

* `(A) the person, during and in relation to the offense, uses or carries a deadly or dangerous weapon or firearm; or
* `(B) the offense results in significant bodily injury as defined by section 2118(e)(3); and
* `(2) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in any other case.

`© In this section--

1. `(1) the term `restricted buildings or grounds' means any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area--
2. `(A) of the White House or its grounds, or the Vice President's official residence or its grounds;

* `(B) of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting; or
* `© of a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance; and
o `(2) the term `other person protected by the Secret Service' means any person whom the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title or by Presidential memorandum, when such person has not declined such protection.'.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/News/Pr...w_Illegal/

They might as well just called it the "Protest and Go to Jail" Bill...

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09-08-2012, 12:59 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 12:12 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  Excuse the repost - but bickering over burial protests is nothing (repeat nothing) compared to law passed in March:

HR 347
`(a) Whoever--

1. knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
2. knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;
3. knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or
4. knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

`(b) The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is--

1. a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, if--

* `(A) the person, during and in relation to the offense, uses or carries a deadly or dangerous weapon or firearm; or
* `(B) the offense results in significant bodily injury as defined by section 2118(e)(3); and
* `(2) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in any other case.

`© In this section--

1. `(1) the term `restricted buildings or grounds' means any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area--
2. `(A) of the White House or its grounds, or the Vice President's official residence or its grounds;

* `(B) of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting; or
* `© of a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance; and
o `(2) the term `other person protected by the Secret Service' means any person whom the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title or by Presidential memorandum, when such person has not declined such protection.'.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/News/Pr...w_Illegal/

They might as well just called it the "Protest and Go to Jail" Bill...

First of all, now that I read more about the law pertaining to military funerals, I do not have as much of an issue with it. I do think that it should pertain to any funeral and not just military.

This one here I don't have so much of an issue with either. Protesting is one thing, doing it in a way that impedes anyone the ability to do their job is another.
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09-08-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 12:59 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  This one here I don't have so much of an issue with either. Protesting is one thing, doing it in a way that impedes anyone the ability to do their job is another.

Here's the thing - the nature of a protest is to disrupt or to draw attention to the issue being protested.

The way this law reads, protesting, picketing, etc., at a candidate rally or speech, is now illegal.

Any person under secret service protection (e.g., Mitt Romney, the President), wherever they may be speaking is now considered protected ground. This law is much more restrictive of your 1st amendment rights than putting limits on where and when a funeral protest can take place.

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09-08-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 01:09 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(09-08-2012 12:59 PM)tnt4philly Wrote:  This one here I don't have so much of an issue with either. Protesting is one thing, doing it in a way that impedes anyone the ability to do their job is another.

Here's the thing - the nature of a protest is to disrupt or to draw attention to the issue being protested.

The way this law reads, protesting, picketing, etc., at a candidate rally or speech, is now illegal.

Any person under secret service protection (e.g., Mitt Romney, the President), wherever they may be speaking is now considered protected ground. This law is much more restrictive of your 1st amendment rights than putting limits on where and when a funeral protest can take place.

Oh, you're such a worrywart. They would never misuse this obviously well-intentioned law. Dodgy

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09-08-2012, 03:11 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Wow. Seasbury. How did that one sneak in under the radar? It was passed in March ??? That's a law that would be more at home in Zim. *Surely* some of the people who voted on it would have gone to the press about it?
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10-08-2012, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2012 08:09 PM by publius2k4.)
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(09-08-2012 12:12 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  Excuse the repost - but bickering over burial protests is nothing (repeat nothing) compared to law passed in March:

HR 347
`(a) Whoever--

1. knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
2. knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;
3. knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or
4. knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

`(b) The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is--

1. a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, if--

* `(A) the person, during and in relation to the offense, uses or carries a deadly or dangerous weapon or firearm; or
* `(B) the offense results in significant bodily injury as defined by section 2118(e)(3); and
* `(2) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in any other case.

`© In this section--

1. `(1) the term `restricted buildings or grounds' means any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area--
2. `(A) of the White House or its grounds, or the Vice President's official residence or its grounds;

* `(B) of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting; or
* `© of a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance; and
o `(2) the term `other person protected by the Secret Service' means any person whom the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title or by Presidential memorandum, when such person has not declined such protection.'.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/News/Pr...w_Illegal/

They might as well just called it the "Protest and Go to Jail" Bill...

Laws like this have been on the books for a while. This law doesn't stop you from protesting. It stops you from protesting to the point that government officials can't enter or exit their facility to conduct the job they are paid to do.

If you do it in a violent way, such as using physical violence, or threats of violence, it becomes a felony, and you deserve to go to jail.

Here in Georgia, we call this Obstruction.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having your voice heard, and that's not what the government is trying to stop. They're trying to stop people from bullying lawmakers and government officials who are simply trying to do their jobs as they enter their office buildings.

We have to find constructive ways to have our voices heard. In the modern computer age, protests are a bit archaic. You can protest and have your voice heard all the way around the world from the comfort of your own home.....Upload youtube videos, write a blog, write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper....write a letter to the senator who's view opposes yours and attempt to sway him/her. These are all peaceful ways of demonstrating your dissatisfaction with the status quo, but with far greater reach than standing on a street corner with a sign that says "God hates (insert hypothetical discriminatory group here)"

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