Poll: Is The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 constitutional?
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The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
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03-08-2012, 11:50 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2012 11:53 PM by publius2k4.)
The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
This bill, which has passed Congress and is headed to President Obama to be signed into law, will restrict protests at military funerals. Possibly, this is indirectly aimed at Westboro Baptist Church.
http://www.examiner.com/article/presiden...y-funerals
Does this bill seem unconstitutional, violating first amendment rights? Or is their right protected, simply by saying when they can protest?

Please discuss your answer...

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04-08-2012, 05:05 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2012 05:40 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(03-08-2012 11:50 PM)publius2k4 Wrote:  This bill, which has passed Congress and is headed to President Obama to be signed into law, will restrict protests at military funerals. Possibly, this is indirectly aimed at Westboro Baptist Church.
http://www.examiner.com/article/presiden...y-funerals
Does this bill seem unconstitutional, violating first amendment rights? Or is their right protected, simply by saying when they can protest?

Please discuss your answer...

Their protests are interruptions of the peace and can be considered slander directed towards fellow citizens. Pwned bitches.

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04-08-2012, 05:10 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Brilliant.

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04-08-2012, 08:34 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
Slippery slope. I don't care for this kind of legislation because it is the thin edge of the wedge. Why funerals? Why military? Why 2 hrs? Why 300 yards? OK, let's pass legislation that blocks protests from a 2 block radius around the Capitol for 1 day before and 1 day after Congress convenes or recesses. And so on.

I think the better response is for people to interpose themselves between the WBC loonies and the funeral. This has worked and has the advantage of being in-your-face, direct, participatory democracy.

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04-08-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 08:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Slippery slope. I don't care for this kind of legislation because it is the thin edge of the wedge. Why funerals? Why military? Why 2 hrs? Why 300 yards? OK, let's pass legislation that blocks protests from a 2 block radius around the Capitol for 1 day before and 1 day after Congress convenes or recesses. And so on.

I think the better response is for people to interpose themselves between the WBC loonies and the funeral. This has worked and has the advantage of being in-your-face, direct, participatory democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

Your comparison is not accurate. There is a defined difference between allowing people to have their privacy and grievance for the dead respected, and an arbitrary restriction on protesting political matters that are open to the public already. Not to mention I think freedom from speech should trump peoples freedom of speech. I think we can agree it comes useful when we have idiots screaming in the streets outside of your apartment or blasting music at 5am.

Why funerals? It's a private matter. Not a public matter.
Why 2hrs? It might be an appropriate time frame to complete the ceremonies.
Why 300 yards? It might be the appropriate distance to not be a bother.
Why military? There statistically(I say this in reasonable cause, but per ignorance) is probably more of a reason these funerals need more protection, and in my opinion, deserve more respect considering their cause of death.

One is distinctly a private matter and the business of no one else, but immediate family and friends.

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04-08-2012, 11:41 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 09:32 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 08:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Slippery slope. I don't care for this kind of legislation because it is the thin edge of the wedge. Why funerals? Why military? Why 2 hrs? Why 300 yards? OK, let's pass legislation that blocks protests from a 2 block radius around the Capitol for 1 day before and 1 day after Congress convenes or recesses. And so on.

I think the better response is for people to interpose themselves between the WBC loonies and the funeral. This has worked and has the advantage of being in-your-face, direct, participatory democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

Your comparison is not accurate. There is a defined difference between allowing people to have their privacy and grievance for the dead respected, and an arbitrary restriction on protesting political matters that are open to the public already. Not to mention I think freedom from speech should trump peoples freedom of speech. I think we can agree it comes useful when we have idiots screaming in the streets outside of your apartment or blasting music at 5am.

Why funerals? It's a private matter. Not a public matter.
Why 2hrs? It might be an appropriate time frame to complete the ceremonies.
Why 300 yards? It might be the appropriate distance to not be a bother.
Why military? There statistically(I say this in reasonable cause, but per ignorance) is probably more of a reason these funerals need more protection, and in my opinion, deserve more respect considering their cause of death.

One is distinctly a private matter and the business of no one else, but immediate family and friends.

That's an excellent argument. Bowing

I think it's the privacy part that is central.

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04-08-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 09:32 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 08:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Slippery slope. I don't care for this kind of legislation because it is the thin edge of the wedge. Why funerals? Why military? Why 2 hrs? Why 300 yards? OK, let's pass legislation that blocks protests from a 2 block radius around the Capitol for 1 day before and 1 day after Congress convenes or recesses. And so on.

I think the better response is for people to interpose themselves between the WBC loonies and the funeral. This has worked and has the advantage of being in-your-face, direct, participatory democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

Your comparison is not accurate. There is a defined difference between allowing people to have their privacy and grievance for the dead respected, and an arbitrary restriction on protesting political matters that are open to the public already. Not to mention I think freedom from speech should trump peoples freedom of speech. I think we can agree it comes useful when we have idiots screaming in the streets outside of your apartment or blasting music at 5am.

Why funerals? It's a private matter. Not a public matter.
Why 2hrs? It might be an appropriate time frame to complete the ceremonies.
Why 300 yards? It might be the appropriate distance to not be a bother.
Why military? There statistically(I say this in reasonable cause, but per ignorance) is probably more of a reason these funerals need more protection, and in my opinion, deserve more respect considering their cause of death.

One is distinctly a private matter and the business of no one else, but immediate family and friends.

Then are you willing to change the constitution to reflect that freedom from speech is a constitutional right? You are now creating an interpretation that is not in the original document. Freedom of speech is not meant to be limited to Public concerns. There is no private/public division distinction made and despite the fact you don't like the term "slippery slope", it indeed is.

This act concerns me greatly and as much as I hate the WBCers actions, I see this simply as one more erosion to our civil freedoms that has been going on at least since the Patriot Act I.

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04-08-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 11:48 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 09:32 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

Your comparison is not accurate. There is a defined difference between allowing people to have their privacy and grievance for the dead respected, and an arbitrary restriction on protesting political matters that are open to the public already. Not to mention I think freedom from speech should trump peoples freedom of speech. I think we can agree it comes useful when we have idiots screaming in the streets outside of your apartment or blasting music at 5am.

Why funerals? It's a private matter. Not a public matter.
Why 2hrs? It might be an appropriate time frame to complete the ceremonies.
Why 300 yards? It might be the appropriate distance to not be a bother.
Why military? There statistically(I say this in reasonable cause, but per ignorance) is probably more of a reason these funerals need more protection, and in my opinion, deserve more respect considering their cause of death.

One is distinctly a private matter and the business of no one else, but immediate family and friends.

Then are you willing to change the constitution to reflect that freedom from speech is a constitutional right? You are now creating an interpretation that is not in the original document. Freedom of speech is not meant to be limited to Public concerns. There is no private/public division distinction made and despite the fact you don't like the term "slippery slope", it indeed is.

This act concerns me greatly and as much as I hate the WBCers actions, I see this simply as one more erosion to our civil freedoms that has been going on at least since the Patriot Act I.

You make a good argument. Bowing

It's the erosion part that makes it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-08-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 11:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 11:48 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Then are you willing to change the constitution to reflect that freedom from speech is a constitutional right? You are now creating an interpretation that is not in the original document. Freedom of speech is not meant to be limited to Public concerns. There is no private/public division distinction made and despite the fact you don't like the term "slippery slope", it indeed is.

This act concerns me greatly and as much as I hate the WBCers actions, I see this simply as one more erosion to our civil freedoms that has been going on at least since the Patriot Act I.

You make a good argument. Bowing

It's the erosion part that makes it.

When did you become so wishy-washy?

Bowing

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04-08-2012, 12:02 PM
RE: The Honoring America's Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012
(04-08-2012 11:54 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 11:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  You make a good argument. Bowing

It's the erosion part that makes it.

When did you become so wishy-washy?

Bowing

They're both good arguments.Smartass

Me, I'd just beat the WBCers to death with a club.Drinking Beverage

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