The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
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06-09-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
I mean the latter. I think those who are accept that he is actually jealous justify this with "that his nature" or some other argument that boils down to "The bible says so, so I don't have to think about it further". I don't think there is a reasonable way to reconcile a jealous god with generally accepted godly properties... like... you know... being a grown up.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-09-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(05-09-2014 11:35 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I do not understand how people can think that a god who is jealous and condemns people to eternal damnation comes across as anything less than sheer idiocy.

Let me get this Christian argument straight: The Christian god is the creator of the universe. He is all-powerful, all-seeing, and all-knowing. He gets angry when people don't worship him, or defy his word, and sentences those people to eternal damnation...even though he knew what those people were going to do before they were even born. Why do so many people lack the ability to see the stupidity in this scenario?

This is the equivalent of lining up a whole bunch of dominoes in a row with just a tiny space in between them, then knocking over the one at the back, and then getting pissed off that all the dominoes in front of it got knocked down too. You set it up, you know what is going to happen, you do it anyway, and then you get pissed off when the result is exactly what you knew it would be. Seriously, is the Christian god really that stupid and childish?

Don't make the mistake of thinking they've actually put some thought into this.

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06-09-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 06:13 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(06-09-2014 04:18 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I think that one has the excuse that he actually wanted it to happen. For some reason.

couldn't he just have jumped of a cliff and get the romans to watch it, its not like there would be any difference

Not possible. It'd be much less dramatic and it removes the ability to guilt people for it.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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06-09-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 06:38 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(06-09-2014 06:26 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  As for being jealous, no. There is no defence for that flaw in a god.

Do you mean there's no defence for the claim that he is jelous or no stance of which a Christian could take to defend the flaw? ( Probably the second but I just had to be clear).

As Christopher Hitchens said (I have such a hard on for quoting him) we were "Created sick and commanded to be well."


"God created us sick and commanded to be well."
I love that quote - I can feel a brain hard on. Never knew logic was so horny.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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07-09-2014, 12:46 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(05-09-2014 11:35 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I do not understand how people can think that a god who is jealous and condemns people to eternal damnation comes across as anything less than sheer idiocy.

Let me get this Christian argument straight: The Christian god is the creator of the universe. He is all-powerful, all-seeing, and all-knowing. He gets angry when people don't worship him, or defy his word, and sentences those people to eternal damnation...even though he knew what those people were going to do before they were even born. Why do so many people lack the ability to see the stupidity in this scenario?

This is the equivalent of lining up a whole bunch of dominoes in a row with just a tiny space in between them, then knocking over the one at the back, and then getting pissed off that all the dominoes in front of it got knocked down too. You set it up, you know what is going to happen, you do it anyway, and then you get pissed off when the result is exactly what you knew it would be. Seriously, is the Christian god really that stupid and childish?

The primary reason that I believed in the god you are referring to was that I was indoctrinated from my earliest years by those I loved. I remember being afraid of god, and feeling guilty about those feelings. The emotional stability required to question god was beyond my reach.

It is easy to see, now that I am free of indoctrination, how these things are mere assertions, but it is sometimes hard to remember that they aren't presented like to children.

I wouldn't say that people usually fail to notice the stupidity of a given religious principle. They fail to reach an emotional level where they are capable of making themselves a judge of these matters. Up until that moment where it becomes acceptable to question, they are afraid. If you believe god has done terrible and frightening things before, why wouldn't you worry about what he might do to you, especially if you displease him by questioning him? The scripture are no help, since they contain stories and even blatant threats related to the terrible consequences of doubt, disbelief, or asking inconvenient questions.

I like it when we point out the inconsistencies, the mistakes, the immoralities, and other problems of religion. I think that does a whole world of good. However, the real struggle and pleasure for me is the way a person's life can be transformed by taking back the power and control over his life that he or she previously had surrendered to a religion. Learning, often directly from one of us, that you can questions religion and the idea of god is a empowering experience.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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07-09-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 04:18 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  There seems to be this general problem where theists have a hard time really grasping the concepts of "all powerful", "all seeing", and "all knowing". They don't really think about the potential at all. To them God's powers are "can kind of sway events a bit to one side".

I have observed that they often don't attempt to grasp those ideas at all. God might be the most elastic idea ever conceived. It can literally fit anywhere. I think to most believers, god is whatever they want god to be. It acts as an extension of their needs and desires.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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08-09-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 06:38 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  As Christopher Hitchens said (I have such a hard on for quoting him) we were "Created sick and commanded to be well."
Love the quote, but actually Hitchens was quoting Fulke Greville whose exact quote was "created sick, commanded to be sound" (fourth line down in the link).

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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08-09-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 03:12 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  It is because that if you do not believe what the pastor says. You won't be a member of their church. If there are no members, there is no money. So of course the pastor is going to brainwash people and use fear tactics and persecution or even violence to force people to give them money....I mean believe in their god.

The more people you scare into your religion, the more money you will have.

Simple.

It's a racket, like paying the mob protection money.
You give them money every week, and they'll protect you from what they will do to you if you don't pay them. Tongue
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08-09-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(06-09-2014 07:42 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(06-09-2014 06:38 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Do you mean there's no defence for the claim that he is jelous or no stance of which a Christian could take to defend the flaw? ( Probably the second but I just had to be clear).

As Christopher Hitchens said (I have such a hard on for quoting him) we were "Created sick and commanded to be well."


"God created us sick and commanded to be well."
I love that quote - I can feel a brain hard on. Never knew logic was so horny.

Yes, I love that quote too. What's worse is that the Christian religion teaches people to believe they are sinful, unworthy beings from the get go and the only way to redeem themselves is through christ. It's similar to the psychological damage domestic violence inflicts on a victim with a cycle of guilt and asking for forgiveness in order to be happy . The victim feels unworthy of love unless they grovel and bow down to the authority but it's especially pathetic because there is no evidence that this "authority" exists except inside the minds of the victims.

To me Christianity is a big S/M relationship with an imaginary figure.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-09-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: The Idiocy Of An Angry Or Jealous God
(05-09-2014 11:35 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Why do so many people lack the ability to see the stupidity in this scenario?

Because it's something they really believed before they learned all the nasty parts, and on top of that, they're scared of hell.

It probably took me an extra six months longer than it otherwise would have to admit I didn't believe in God just because of hell. I hit a point where I knew I didn't believe anymore, but I was afraid if I'd admitted it, I'd be risking hell.
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