The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
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05-04-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(05-04-2015 06:04 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(04-04-2015 07:15 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  It has been cited as historical fact that wherever Muslims exist in significant numbers, social unrest follows.

Sure, Muslims are violent but if you want to see some real war, violence and genocide, get a bunch of white people together and divide them into a bunch of sides and call those sides "countries". Then, I promise you, you'll see some serious violent shit. The history of the world is filled with examples.

Make sure to make them peaceful Christians fighting for their peaceful Christianity. That way you get the maximum violence.

Lets turn it around...

Sure, Christians are violent but if you want to see some real war, violence and genocide, get a bunch of Arabs together and divide them into a bunch of sides and call those sides "countries". Then, I promise you, you'll see some serious violent shit. The history of the world is filled with examples.

Make sure to make them peaceful Muslims fighting for their peaceful Islam. That way you get the maximum violence.


Suddenly that paragraph looks very racist... Yet somehow it looked fine when you imply that white people are inherently violent and warlike. Consider

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05-04-2015, 09:25 PM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(04-04-2015 07:52 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(04-04-2015 07:46 AM)cactus Wrote:  extreme religious ideals + shitty government + poverty + peer pressure + limited access to access to education + censorship of the media and the internet + class segregation + cultural stagnation

It's a multi-faceted problem.

How then does one explain homegrown radical islamists in western countries where they have freedom, above average education, no censorship of the media and internet, etc?

Probably the same way someone explains Timothy McVeigh, the man responsible for the largest act of terrorism on American soil (the Oklahoma City Bombing) until the attacks on 9-11.

For the record, he was raised a Roman Catholic. Drinking Beverage

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06-04-2015, 06:24 AM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(05-04-2015 09:15 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 06:04 PM)BnW Wrote:  Sure, Muslims are violent but if you want to see some real war, violence and genocide, get a bunch of white people together and divide them into a bunch of sides and call those sides "countries". Then, I promise you, you'll see some serious violent shit. The history of the world is filled with examples.

Make sure to make them peaceful Christians fighting for their peaceful Christianity. That way you get the maximum violence.

Lets turn it around...

Sure, Christians are violent but if you want to see some real war, violence and genocide, get a bunch of Arabs together and divide them into a bunch of sides and call those sides "countries". Then, I promise you, you'll see some serious violent shit. The history of the world is filled with examples.

Make sure to make them peaceful Muslims fighting for their peaceful Islam. That way you get the maximum violence.


Suddenly that paragraph looks very racist... Yet somehow it looked fine when you imply that white people are inherently violent and warlike. Consider

So, you're turning around my turn around? Is that what you're doing?

And, of course it looks racist. That was sort of the point.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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06-04-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(06-04-2015 06:24 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 09:15 PM)Sam Wrote:  Lets turn it around...

Sure, Christians are violent but if you want to see some real war, violence and genocide, get a bunch of Arabs together and divide them into a bunch of sides and call those sides "countries". Then, I promise you, you'll see some serious violent shit. The history of the world is filled with examples.

Make sure to make them peaceful Muslims fighting for their peaceful Islam. That way you get the maximum violence.


Suddenly that paragraph looks very racist... Yet somehow it looked fine when you imply that white people are inherently violent and warlike. Consider

So, you're turning around my turn around? Is that what you're doing?

And, of course it looks racist. That was sort of the point.
My point is that the post you quoted makes no reference to skin colour/race. It only mentions Muslims.

Muslims are no more a race than Christians are. It's a belief system, a world view and an ideology.

We're seeing significant numbers of people of all races joining radical Islamist groups... The one unifying factor being their ideology.

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06-04-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
And my point is you can make the same blanket statement about any group. If you prefer "people of European descent" instead of "whites", you get to the same results. Same thing if you change it to "Christians".

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06-04-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(06-04-2015 08:53 AM)BnW Wrote:  And my point is you can make the same blanket statement about any group. If you prefer "people of European descent" instead of "whites", you get to the same results. Same thing if you change it to "Christians".
If you think religion and race are the same thing then you're very much mistaken.

Anywhere you look around the world you'll find examples of human violence. Certain factors tend to bring out the worst more than others, one being religion.

Only somebody in complete denial could think that there isn't a problem with the Islamic faith today.
The last figures I saw showed there are about twice as many Christians as Muslims, yet we don't see Christian extremism on anything like the same scale.

I will always regard any ideology that behaves the way the Islamic world does, as extremely dangerous and backward.

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06-04-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
I didn't say anything about the Islamic faith at all. What I'm reacting to is the original line that read as follows :

It has been cited as historical fact that wherever Muslims exist in significant numbers, social unrest follows.

That line is not talking about the current state of the Islamic faith. What it is very clearly implying is that Muslims are more prone to violence in large groups than other groups. And, if you don't think there is a racial quality to that statement, you're not thinking it through.

I call bullshit. It is not a historical fact that Muslims are more prone to "social unrest" than any other group. The bloody history of Christianity and Europe make it impossible to argue otherwise.

Are Muslims causing more worldwide violence today? Absolutely. That was not the point being made, though. And, it's not just a matter of semantics. There are clear implications to the original point.

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06-04-2015, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2015 01:37 PM by Res Publica.)
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(06-04-2015 11:51 AM)BnW Wrote:  I didn't say anything about the Islamic faith at all. What I'm reacting to is the original line that read as follows :

It has been cited as historical fact that wherever Muslims exist in significant numbers, social unrest follows.

That line is not talking about the current state of the Islamic faith. What it is very clearly implying is that Muslims are more prone to violence in large groups than other groups. And, if you don't think there is a racial quality to that statement, you're not thinking it through.

I call bullshit. It is not a historical fact that Muslims are more prone to "social unrest" than any other group. The bloody history of Christianity and Europe make it impossible to argue otherwise.

Are Muslims causing more worldwide violence today? Absolutely. That was not the point being made, though. And, it's not just a matter of semantics. There are clear implications to the original point.

There is not a racial quality because a race is a group of people of shared ancestry. I could be a family or it could be an entire homogeneous nation like Japan. Moslems are not a race. Prehaps what you mean is ethnicity, but that would not be true either. An ethnicity is a group of people united by a common ancestral, cultural, social or national tradition (source). Arabs, Persians, Javans, Chechens, Bosnians, Hui and Turks are all predominantly Moslem ethnicities, but beyond being Moslem they share very little in common. So their is not a racial or ethnic quality to that statement at all.

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06-04-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
Anytime I see someone saying "Muslims are EVIL", I'm pretty sure I'm looking at someone who's narrowly focused and usually a closeted Christian......

I don't find ANY religion more or less likely to be evil.

As near as I can tell - anyone who's a devout whacko is capable of killing "In His Name"....

.......................................

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06-04-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: The Illusion that Poverty Causes Radicalization
(06-04-2015 01:02 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Anytime I see someone saying "Muslims are EVIL", I'm pretty sure I'm looking at someone who's narrowly focused and usually a closeted Christian......

I don't find ANY religion more or less likely to be evil.

As near as I can tell - anyone who's a devout whacko is capable of killing "In His Name"....

Agreed. I do not want fundies of any stripe to be allowed to run free.
Living in the US it is hard to grasp that in other countries the government does not have the power to immediately smash armed overt groups. It could be argued that the poverty of a nation has an effect by limiting the size of security forces, the training, the intelligence penetration, and the armament.

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