The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-07-2013, 04:23 AM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(26-07-2013 02:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 12:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The implications of your words are you're more rational, intelligent, and a better critical thinker than Christians. I would be willing to put myself against you to show you that's not at all the case.

... This should be fun Big Grin You can start by discussing the local flood interpretation of the Noah's ark story Big Grin

lol remember?

Based on historical evidence of the time period, I am one of those Christains that believe it was a story.

Yes, I did beleve in the local flood at one time, but as I learned about evidence, my view changed.

I don't bend everything else to make a certain preconceived idea fit. I have to go with the evidence.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
26-07-2013, 06:30 AM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(25-07-2013 11:14 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 11:01 PM)morondog Wrote:  Limitation of free speech...

While I agree with you in principle... even here we have had major flare-ups over banning of people with controversial views... It doesn't happen that often but it does happen.

An internet forum is not a public space in the sense that a soapbox in a public square is. It is owned and maintained by someone who is free to make the rules there as they see fit, also the existing forum community might play a part. It might seem unfair but then... it's not like you pay anything to be a member (at least, I doubt you pay at ChristianForums).

Forums should be open places where ideas can flow easily. Censorship is so counter productive that I wonder why they even set up the forum to begin with. All it shows when they ban people is that they can't handle any amount of argument that contradicts their own.

That's awfully naive.

The internet is a free place, and that includes the freedom to set up little deluded clubs like theirs. It's their club - not yours.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(26-07-2013 04:23 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, I did beleve in the local flood at one time, but as I learned about evidence, my view changed.

I don't bend everything else to make a certain preconceived idea fit. I have to go with the evidence.

Dammit. I thought I was setting you up to get hit out the park...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(26-07-2013 12:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 11:58 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  We atheists ask difficult questions and never get satisfying answers because our standard of evidence and overall rationality are in another world when compared to theists.

I beg to differ. That's a general and untrue statement... maybe a lot of times you don't get a straight answer, but to say atheists never get a straight answer is false.

I realize you were probably being hyperbolic and using a figure of speech, but be careful how you communicate absolutes.

I have a 2500 post thread of me giving direct and straight answers.

Quote:Christians expect you too bow before their doctrine and tradition because it makes perfect sense to them.

Some do... some don't. There are many like myself that don't shove Bibles down people's throats.

Quote:It is almost the same for them as when we present our evidence for evolution and the big bang with confidence and gusto. The difference lies in the fact that they don't understand the need for evidence, therefore their stories make sense to them while it doesn't to us. Also, our evidence goes right over their heads because they don't understand it and end up reverting back to their scripture.

That's a very broad, sweeping and pretentious statement. Again, not all Christians are like this... there is actually a large population of Christians that accept evolution and fight along side atheists to get the others to accept it.

It is pretentious because you are demeaning another's belief system and elevating yours to a place that's deemed infallible. I understand that you think you're right, but what makes your opinion hold more weight than someone else's? Don't you see the double standard here?

I'm not saying agree with the person... you can be vehemently opposed, but there is a difference between that and belittling someone because of their beliefs.

The implications of your words are you're more rational, intelligent, and a better critical thinker than Christians. I would be willing to put myself against you to show you that's not at all the case.

A wise atheist can see this and embrace this... it is critical in understanding others and how different people think.

When conversing with people, I try to follow this general rule:

I am not better than anyone. My beliefs are not better than someone else's. My opinions are not more important than another's. All people are equal and deserve respect when they convey their beliefs.

Obviously there is a caveat there; if a person proves himself to be a complete jerk, then respect is forfeited.

Didn't mean to jump on a soap box and come at you, I just wanted to help you understand others and how to effectively communicate in a gumbo of beliefs.

First of all, there are some things in the Bible that cannot be believed by any rational human being, these things include the parentage of Cain and Abel in producing kids that continued onto us. Also, the flood story is so unbelievably crazy that it too cannot be believed by a rational person. I would think that to be a true Christian you should believe everything in the Bible based on faith, not just the snippets that you deem important. As you go through the Bible you are hit with a barrage of contradictions and clever fabrications that I would expect any healthy, thoughtful person to put it down and discount it for what it is, a 2000 year old attempt at life's biggest questions.

On the point of Christian-Atheist fellowship on the battle for evolution over ID, I would agree that it is a great thing that that is happening. Although, who are we battling against? The religious apologetic and fundamentalists that use the same Bible as the Christians fighting against them on the scientific side. I am an antitheist and I believe that without the indoctrination of the kids with this religious nonsense, we would not be having these battles to have scientific theories taught in school.

Quote:It is pretentious because you are demeaning another's belief system and elevating yours to a place that's deemed infallible. I understand that you think you're right, but what makes your opinion hold more weight than someone else's? Don't you see the double standard here?

Here is the difference between Christian and Secular thinking. You may think that I am pretentious for choosing to put science above religion on the list of important belief systems but come on, you really think they are even close to compatible? Science has given us everything we use today from the light bulb to computer you are typing on. Religion has given us nothing but a placebo for when we feel weary and centuries of warfare and toil. Also, I do belittle religious belief because I think it is not only ridiculous and outdated, but also because it is amoral and cynical. I do not put up with religious types trying to play the victim card allowing their idiotic belief system to flourish for longer than it should. I would also argue that the scientific method is a thousand times more trustworthy and reliable than religious ideology every time when looking to create a robust theory on the nature of the universe.

Quote:Obviously there is a caveat there; if a person proves himself to be a complete jerk, then respect is forfeited.

I invite you to think I am a complete jerk, it is no matter to me. On the other hand, I do not respect your religious belief system in the slightest for the reasons outlined above and many others. I do not think they should be practiced by any adult in the modern times we live in nor taught to innocent children. Feel free to jump on the soap box whenever you feel it necessary, but do not expect me to turn my cheek when slapped because I do not love my enemies and will fight for secularism over religion every time.

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes elegant_atheist's post
26-07-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(26-07-2013 06:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 11:14 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Forums should be open places where ideas can flow easily. Censorship is so counter productive that I wonder why they even set up the forum to begin with. All it shows when they ban people is that they can't handle any amount of argument that contradicts their own.

That's awfully naive.

The internet is a free place, and that includes the freedom to set up little deluded clubs like theirs. It's their club - not yours.

Maybe it was naive to expect a voice in a forum I signed up for. Now I know that Christians have no interest in having their ideals/ideologies challenged on their forum sites. Just today, I signed up for another Christian site and before I could even start posting my blasphemy I got this email:

Quote:Dear elegant_atheist, we appreciate you being honest with your intention. We however do not allow any kind of debates or topics that is aimed to refute the scriptures. We are sorry that we cannot accept this registration but you are invited to email us and we will guide you with your questions.

Now I realize that this site was "Christian only" and they can do what they want with their own site, but come on how crazy is that message?

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
(26-07-2013 11:58 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(26-07-2013 06:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  That's awfully naive.

The internet is a free place, and that includes the freedom to set up little deluded clubs like theirs. It's their club - not yours.

Maybe it was naive to expect a voice in a forum I signed up for. Now I know that Christians have no interest in having their ideals/ideologies challenged on their forum sites. Just today, I signed up for another Christian site and before I could even start posting my blasphemy I got this email:

Quote:Dear elegant_atheist, we appreciate you being honest with your intention. We however do not allow any kind of debates or topics that is aimed to refute the scriptures. We are sorry that we cannot accept this registration but you are invited to email us and we will guide you with your questions.

Now I realize that this site was "Christian only" and they can do what they want with their own site, but come on how crazy is that message?

It is a blind, fearful little message. They are not interested in new ideas, especially uncomfortable ones.

They are to be pitied.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
26-07-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
Kingsy,
There is no evidence of a local flood in the ancient Near East. Archaeology has proven there is no silt layer anywhere, (anywhere at all), and specifically which would correspond to any small OR large flood. Many sites, (Jericho for example), and sites in Turkey (where Mt. Ararat is), have been excavated to below any level where the flood could have, or would have happened. In order for a craft to be deposited on Mt. Ararat, the water level would have had to be higher than a "local" flood. No silt layer at Mt.Ararat. There also was no genetic bottle-neck at any time the ancient Near East. So no wide-spread flood. What evidence is there for a local flood, or are you saying that there is no evidence, but one was "possible" ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2013 12:23 PM by Logisch.)
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
It's interesting really... we pride ourselves on our free speech here. Even on very controversial topics, people are allowed to bring things up. Why? Because intelligent discussion and debate is what allows people to be able to form opinions, to decide for themselves, and to bring forth ideas.

Even if you don't agree with something, the very act of discussing it does not make it true or false, it's simply discussion. Some things may offend people, some things people will immediately disagree with, while others may end up changing minds. This website is here for community, and in community, especially tight knit communities, people generally feel far more secure about discussing things.

It's why we have a personal issues section. People can openly share things and talk about things, discuss things and feel ok doing so.

I find it reprehensible and downright disappointing that they limit the amount of free speech over there (the xtian forums) but it is their website, they can do with it what they wish. When I see people censor free speech to such a ridiculous degree, I can't help but think that people who run such forums are afraid of minds being changed or because they are afraid of their own ideas being challenged. What does that REALLY say about those people? What does it REALLY say about their comfort level of their own ideas? "Oh no, they disagreed, i think they are wrong. Time to delete that post and teach them good! HAH! Take that!" ... the individual who does such may think they are winning, however, limiting and censoring free speech really just makes you look like an ass who is afraid of other opinions or ideas. For the individual who watches things being censored, who may be curious, that only makes people question things and go, "I don't get it, why do they need to delete it? What are they afraid of?" at least, I know that's how I see it.

There can be no progress in ideas and free thinking without discussion and understanding. Censor that and you'll be stuck in the same dogmatic pattern over and over, time and time again.

Some people are in shock and awe that people bring up things here of controversy, but the more I look back at the various amounts of progress made on how people have handled discussions, the more I value our ability and freedom to discuss things here on this forum. No single staff member here drives THEIR ideas and THEIR opinions on the rules. They are set to allow everyone the ability to be open minded, think and discuss for themselves within what is safe and reasonable for the community.

Now that is what I call.... valuable.

Don't be shocked when you find a website driven by dogma and it is limited to dogma. The only way to maintain a dogmatic view is to push away everything unrelated, put your fingers in your ears and go LA LA LA LA, or even actively censor ANYTHING that even slightly challenges your ideas and views.

I don't bother going to those websites at all anymore. I figure the internet is large enough. If someone wants answers and they are curious, there are plenty of resources out there outside of those forums that people can look at and read (this being one of them) in which case... the ideas and info will flow. You can censor one forum all you want, it will not change the content of the entire internet, nor the curiosity of the individual.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Logisch's post
26-07-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
I just made an account there. Let's see how this goes.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
26-07-2013, 01:29 PM
RE: The Insanity and Insecurity of Christian Forum Members and Staff
God needs to go to that forum and resurrect it. It's SO GODDAMN SLOW! There is no one on!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: