The Internet and atheism
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23-12-2013, 08:44 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 08:41 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Education is the enemy of faith.
Internet = education available like never before in history.
(education good, bad and in the middle..........doesn't matter. Education Available is the point)

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With how crappy the American eduction system is, a child is better off obtaining an education online.
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23-12-2013, 08:48 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2013 09:05 PM by sporehux.)
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 08:38 PM)Mr Greene Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 08:00 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Mr. Greene, you are pretty close to creating the fallacy of an Argument from Spurious Similarity and Appealing to History. You are saying that because TV/radio et al can/did provide information in a fashion quicker than technology before it, that was the reason for a religious schism (for which you have provided zero proof), therefore the Internet, which provides info faster the TV/radio (the now previous technology) must be the reason for a rise in secularism. Sorry, but just because something was true (if it was true) in the past does not make it true now, sort of the opposite of the Argument to the Future. We still have no stats, no evidence, mere conjecture and blind assertions.
The move toward secularism is part of a long term trend which is gathering pace due to the improved methods of communication but not caused directly by them.
The general population is becoming empowered in a way they were not before.
The internet in and of itself is neutral to the concept of religion.
Therefore the root cause of an alteration in religious patterns must lie elsewhere.

I don't think robbie was implying that the internet poked the hole in the bucket, but rather it has widened the hole.
Which by mountains of circumstantial evidence says yes the internet is helping to kill religion, with near zero hypothesis for no.

Since the invention of woo there has been a balance scale of woo vs nones. The internet seems to have tipped that scale by giving more weight to reason and secularism. While putting question to woo.
.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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23-12-2013, 09:05 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 08:44 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 08:41 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Education is the enemy of faith.
Internet = education available like never before in history.
(education good, bad and in the middle..........doesn't matter. Education Available is the point)

Thumbsup

With how crappy the American eduction system is, a child is better off obtaining an education online.

There is no 'American education system'. It varies from state to state and town to town.

Some are exceptionally good, some are abominable, most are in between.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-12-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 09:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 08:44 PM)Foxen Wrote:  With how crappy the American eduction system is, a child is better off obtaining an education online.

There is no 'American education system'. It varies from state to state and town to town.

Some are exceptionally good, some are abominable, most are in between.


*nods head* That is scary true. lol

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24-12-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 09:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 08:44 PM)Foxen Wrote:  With how crappy the American eduction system is, a child is better off obtaining an education online.

There is no 'American education system'. It varies from state to state and town to town.

Some are exceptionally good, some are abominable, most are in between.

When we have an educational system run by a bunch of idiots (politicians) telling teachers how to do their jobs, then what do people expect? This is like hiring a baker with no experience in carpentry telling the carpenter how to do his job, and then scratching your head when the house falls apart because it's a piece of shit. How can everybody see the blatant idiocy of the latter situation, but not the former? It boggles my mind.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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24-12-2013, 03:25 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
I'd say curiosity kills it.
Questioning kills it.
You need that certain spark of healthy of skepticism.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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24-12-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 03:43 PM)Mr Greene Wrote:  Maybe true for America, However here in Blighty the church has been dead for 3 generations.
Things are accelerating now as the last generation to join the church en masse is reaching life expectancy.
Here it wasn't some outside force that caused the church to decline, the damage was done from the pulpit.

Plus the widespread investment in education after WWII.

(23-12-2013 07:13 PM)Mr Greene Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 06:54 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Again, these are mere assertions, not statistics. Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to this, but no one on here has evidence, just conjecture. What's next, you'll tell me you feel it in your heart that the Internet is a game-changer? Sounds indoctrinated, huh?
Greater access to information and the ability to communicate has lead to such outcomes in the past, the protestant schism occurred in the wake of the development of the printing press and subsequent availability of the the text of the bible for discussion.
The Internet is a component of the new communication technology (telephone > radio > TV) that has increased peoples access to information and provided the means to discuss the text that wasn't available before.
This allows the schism to grow at an unprecedented rate whereas previously such discussion was ultimately limited.
However it isn't the root cause of the schism which remains with the church's own leadership and their own dishonesty.

Yup, I was going to raise the printing press as an example.

It's access to information that increases the rate of change but the direction of change is unpredictable.

What we do get though, is greater access to the dissenting voices.

Dissent impacts as follows:



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24-12-2013, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 05:21 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: The Internet and atheism
(23-12-2013 07:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Do you think the Internet is one of the biggest factors driving the decrease of religion in developed countries in the past 20 years?

this opening is subjective, to me anyway.

Atheism is a religion in the United States, the Supreme Court has decided this and Atheism now is a tax free institution.

there are many reasons why they did this, but one of the main reasons is to offer it equal protection under Constitutional Law.

another reason is that American Atheist starting with Murray O'Hair has been on a relentless quest to sue the US Government.

Now that Atheism is a belief system (which is not what the Constitution in my Nation is based on)

this basically throws out the American Atheists organization from challenging Federal Law as they are a religious institution, and Congress shall make no law regarding a religious institution.

it's complex... but it works both ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair

this entered into federal realm starting in the prison system, that's how it got to the Supreme Court.

~~~

yes she sued the federal government (we the people) over reading Genesis in space, our Court had no Jurisdiction there... so no pay out... she lost.

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24-12-2013, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 05:31 PM by Chas.)
RE: The Internet and atheism
(24-12-2013 05:11 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 07:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Do you think the Internet is one of the biggest factors driving the decrease of religion in developed countries in the past 20 years?

this opening is subjective, to me anyway.

Atheism is a religion in the United States, the Supreme Court has decided this and Atheism now is a tax free institution.

there are many reasons why they did this, but one of the main reasons is to offer it equal protection under Constitutional Law.

another reason is that American Atheist starting with Murray O'Hair has been on a relentless quest to sue the US Government.

Now that Atheism is a belief system (which is not what the Constitution in my Nation is based on)

this basically throws out the American Atheists organization from challenging Federal Law as they are a religious institution, and Congress shall make no law regarding a religious institution.

it's complex... but it works both ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair

this entered into federal realm starting in the prison system, that's how it got to the Supreme Court.

~~~

yes she sued the federal government (we the people) over reading Genesis in space, our Court had no Jurisdiction there... so no pay out... she lost.

The ruling by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals is quite narrow and applies to being able to interpret the First Amendment to cover lack of religious belief as being protected and preventing Congess from legislating atheism.
Both ways, indeed. Drinking Beverage

And "Atheism now is a tax free institution" is complete bullshit. There is no institution.

Quote: "Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003) ('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-12-2013, 05:29 PM
RE: The Internet and atheism
(24-12-2013 05:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 05:11 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  this opening is subjective, to me anyway.

Atheism is a religion in the United States, the Supreme Court has decided this and Atheism now is a tax free institution.

there are many reasons why they did this, but one of the main reasons is to offer it equal protection under Constitutional Law.

another reason is that American Atheist starting with Murray O'Hair has been on a relentless quest to sue the US Government.

Now that Atheism is a belief system (which is not what the Constitution in my Nation is based on)

this basically throws out the American Atheists organization from challenging Federal Law as they are a religious institution, and Congress shall make no law regarding a religious institution.

it's complex... but it works both ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair

this entered into federal realm starting in the prison system, that's how it got to the Supreme Court.

~~~

yes she sued the federal government (we the people) over reading Genesis in space, our Court had no Jurisdiction there... so no pay out... she lost.

The ruling by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals is quite narrow and applies to being able to interpret the First Amendment to cover lack of religious belief as being protected and preventing Congess from legislating atheism.
Both ways, indeed. Drinking Beverage

Quote: "Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003) ('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

the United States consists of all people, of all faiths and beliefs or religions.

and as written in the Constitution all people are free to practice what they believe, no religious institution may petition the federal government to pass laws for them.

this is what I was banned for on atheistforums org lol

bringing this simple truth, which is a matter of greater discussion to light.

the Constitution is a theistic document.

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