The Invention Of The Jewish People
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04-04-2013, 08:12 AM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 08:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 07:56 AM)I and I Wrote:  Did you, a pretend atheist confuse criticizing judaism with denying a holocaust?

Are you completely fucking stupid? When the fuck did criticizing the bible and religion become equivalent to holocaust denial? Hitler killed about 30 million people during ww2 and about 6 million of these europeans were the fantasy land religious people that believed in judaism and believed they were descendents from some ancient great culture. Nobody is denying that these people were killed you stupid as shit fuck.

Explain how these two are somehow the same.


In multiple posts, you are angry about 'The Holocaust'. I am trying to understand why.

People identified as 'Jewish' were targeted, as were other groups.

I agree that there is no such thing as a 'Jewish race'. But I am trying to understand your vitriolic attitude.

Pointing out 20 million dead russians or 20 million dead chinese is in no way a "vitriolic" attitude towards the european believers in judaism being killed. And saying that 20 million is probably worse than 6 million is in no way a vitriolic attitude either.
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04-04-2013, 08:18 AM
Re: RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 07:58 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes... Doesn't mean there aren't groups of Jewish people having been formed in their shifting cultures for years having been subject to discrimination.

If you would quit making assertions like that people accept the ot is true, then you could see this point doesn't matter. Even half the population of Israel supposedly doesn't believe these things.

The state of Israel was founded on the idea of jewish people being the descendents of some great culture before and supposedly this great culture had claim to Israel. The state of Israel was also founded on a religious basis as somehow a claim by this "group" to be awarded a land by a god. Are you saying that most Israelis now reject the reasons for the founding of the Israeli nation?

Yes so fucking what? It's not going to stop existing the past 60 years. Unless you are like those who think all support to Israel would suddenly cease of that was known.

And yes, supposedly from data I've heard of about from archeology shows, atheists groups knowing about Israel and from random articles, it is that way. At least somewhat close to a range of 50%.

Even of large groups of U.S. evangelists started seeing the flaws in the claim to the land, the policy is unlikely to change.
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04-04-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
At the beginning of the book The Invention Of The Jewish People, the author deals with the abstract notions of "culture" "race" "a people" don't have any hard definitions anyway.

There is another book called The Invention Of The White Race" which deals with the same issues, historical revisionism and religion being used to justify colonialization, and all of this being used to give the image of a (singular) "white race".

http://www.amazon.com/The-Invention-Whit...1844677699
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04-04-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
While we're on the subject of books, this looks like a pretty good read:

[Image: dummies2.gif]

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-04-2013, 04:21 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 04:25 PM by Abdul Alhazred.)
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 06:15 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  "Religions don't have a cultural continuity"
Seriously? Smile

OK.

At this point I have come to the conclusion the OP is a loon.

But that's no reflection on the article cited.

In the context of the author being an Israeli, it is correct to say that the concept of Jewish "peoplehood" as embodied in Israeli law (which is not identical to Jewish religious law) originated in the 1800's.

You could say something similar about all the European nationalisms, but the OP is like saying there were no Italians before Garibaldi and no Frenchmen before Napoleon.

Nonsense is nonsense, but the history of nonsense is a very important science.
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04-04-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
OK I've read down the thread now.

Godwin time!

I'll kill the thread real quick by deploying dancing Hitler.

[Image: hitlersmiley.gif] So there! Laughat

Nonsense is nonsense, but the history of nonsense is a very important science.
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04-04-2013, 04:40 PM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  The state of Israel was founded on the idea of jewish people being the descendents of some great culture before and supposedly this great culture had claim to Israel. The state of Israel was also founded on a religious basis as somehow a claim by this "group" to be awarded a land by a god. Are you saying that most Israelis now reject the reasons for the founding of the Israeli nation?

Actually, at the time the British turned over Palestine to be inhabited by both Jews and Palestinians, many Jews were against an Israeli homeland. According to their "laws" Israel could not exist without the return of the Messiah. And since they didn't think Jesus fit the bill... but, what's your point?

People will call themselves what they want and take what they can get; it's happened numerous times in history and once done, history writes and rewrites itself. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-04-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
If you're making the case that the creation of the sovereign state of Israel for jews in an area that happens to also be inhabited by palestinians in response to the holocaust is as retarded as giving african americans a soveriegn nation of their own in a United State of their choice that (hypothetically) happens to allready be inhabited by cherokee's, then I'd agree with you. The holocaust was awful, slavery was awful, the Stalinistic purges that took place at roughly the same time as the holocust & claimed TEN million RUSSIAN lives (but nobody remembers that shit so fuck it) was aweful; UNFORGIVABLE. But isn't setting aside land like that promoting divisiveness! The jews get a nation surrounding biblical cities, like Jerusalem = religious bullshit (uh DUH); why not give them Morrocco or the Kamchatka peninsula, or make english speaking canadians in Ontario trade provinces with the french canadians of Quebec, or make Utah its own soveriegn "The Benevolent Mormons Theocracy of Earth"?
But what are we gonna do about it? Hang all leaders who promote the division of the species......hrm......thats not a bad idea!!

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04-04-2013, 08:16 PM
The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 05:09 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  If you're making the case that the creation of the sovereign state of Israel for jews in an area that happens to also be inhabited by palestinians in response to the holocaust is as retarded as giving african americans a soveriegn nation of their own in a United State of their choice that (hypothetically) happens to allready be inhabited by cherokee's, then I'd agree with you. The holocaust was awful, slavery was awful, the Stalinistic purges that took place at roughly the same time as the holocust & claimed TEN million RUSSIAN lives (but nobody remembers that shit so fuck it) was aweful; UNFORGIVABLE. But isn't setting aside land like that promoting divisiveness! The jews get a nation surrounding biblical cities, like Jerusalem = religious bullshit (uh DUH); why not give them Morrocco or the Kamchatka peninsula, or make english speaking canadians in Ontario trade provinces with the french canadians of Quebec, or make Utah its own soveriegn "The Benevolent Mormons Theocracy of Earth"?
But what are we gonna do about it? Hang all leaders who promote the division of the species......hrm......thats not a bad idea!!

Actually the author of the book INVENTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE is an Israeli professor and says exactly the same thing. In his book he doesn't deal with current Israeli policy or the Israeli nation. The author is an atheist and his book is simply to point out the inconsistencies and fallacies in which made up " the Jewish people". Shlomo Sand is the authors name.

He wrote another book called the invention of Israel which deals with more current Israeli policies I assume, but I do know he isn't for kicking out Jewish people from Israel which by this point would be a pipe dream and a waste of time supporting.
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05-04-2013, 02:22 AM
RE: The Invention Of The Jewish People
(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  Actually the author of the book INVENTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE is an Israeli professor and says exactly the same thing. In his book he doesn't deal with current Israeli policy or the Israeli nation. The author is an atheist and his book is simply to point out the inconsistencies and fallacies in which made up " the Jewish people". Shlomo Sand is the authors name.

He wrote another book called the invention of Israel which deals with more current Israeli policies I assume, but I do know he isn't for kicking out Jewish people from Israel which by this point would be a pipe dream and a waste of time supporting.

Hm, I looked up the author's wiki - looks like a good read.

Still don't know what you're so bent about. Why didn't you just say, 'Hey, I just read this guy's work, here's what he said, and I think it's cool.' ... Then maybe say here's how it fits in with what's on my mind. (which you have yet to divulge)

No need to get all obsessive about it... you might read another book tomorrow and find a whole different thing to have a crush on.

But hey, you rock on. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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