The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
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20-10-2012, 07:56 PM
The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Wikipedia Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

Merriam Webster Definition of GOD
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality 3 : a person or thing of supreme value 4 : a powerful ruler See god defined for English-language learners »See god defined for kids »

Examples of GOD

Does she believe in God?
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people. If you try and define atheism they will angrily tell you that to be an atheist simply means that one doesn't believe in the existence of a god or gods. If you tell them that you were once an atheist they will angrily tell you that you must not have been a "real" atheist. This has happened to me dozens of times.

If you tell an atheist that according to the Bible and a good modern dictionary a god can be anything or anyone they will say you are distorting definitions to suit your own paradigm and your are intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. The fact is, atheists tend to be extremely emotionally fixed upon their idealism, even more so than the religious, and they tend to be grossly ignorant of the Bible because they oppose modern day Christianity and to a lesser extent, any other theology.

This is my attempt to educate the atheists on what exactly a god, or deity is. God, Gods, Goddesses. The primary argument is that atheism is the disbelief of gods, it denies the existence of gods. The methodology consists of nothing more than the practical common usage of the word God, but no such distinction within the basic tenant of atheism is given, besides, the common usage of a word doesn't negate the other possible uses. The other defense is that the other gods are metaphorical. This is false, because all gods are equally metaphorical in application. The very root of the Hebrew and Greek words for gods indicates this.

What Is A God

The Hebrew word El and variations of it are translated into the English word God. It means "Mighty; Strong." The Greek word theos is the equivalent, and was used to translate El, Elohim, etc. in the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures. When the Hebrew El appears with the definite article ha (ha El, literally meaning "the God" in the Bible it was in reference strictly to Jehovah, but the various terms used without the definite article may be applied to Jehovah, to other gods, to men.

Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God [Hebrew El Gibbohr], Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy of Jesus Christ, who was a man, and is called a mighty God.

Psalm 82:1, 6 God [Hebrew Elohim] is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods [Hebrew elohim] he judges: "I myself have said, 'You are gods [Hebrew elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High.'"

Here Jehovah God calls the human judges of Israel, some of whom were faithful and some of whom were not, gods.

John 10:34, 35 Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said: "You are gods [Greek theoi, Hebrew elohim]?'" If he called 'gods' those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified,

Here Jesus is faced with the same sort of religiosity that the modern day atheist, under the influence of the modern day misguided theist, displays. A poor understanding and almost superstitious definition of what it means to be a god. He corrects them with their own sacred text, Psalm 82:1, 6, given above.

Exodus 4:16; 7:1 And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God [Hebrew lelohim] to him. Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you God [Hebrew elohim] to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet."

Here again Jehovah God refers to a man, Moses, as an appointed God to Pharaoh and to Aaron. All of these verses of men being gods simply mean that they are mighty, strong. Because that is what the word god means. Anything or anyone who is attributed might or is venerated by another. So Jehovah was the God of Israel, meaning he was mighty to Israel, he was venerated by Israel. Dagon was the god [elohim] to the Philistines. (1 Samuel 5:7)

The problem is that atheists as well as most theists see this as some sort of metaphoric distinction, and that isn't the case. They see the one true God negating the others as false and that isn't necessarily so. Some gods of the nations were "valueless gods" in Jehovah's eyes and supposedly to the faithful Israelites, but that didn't mean that all of the other gods were false, or even that any of them were any less of a god in the eyes of the beholder, because that is what a God is. Something or someone with might or strength in the eyes of the beholder.

Why The Confusion?

Jeremiah 23:27
They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.

There is some confusion, though note that the above definition of a god from a modern dictionary is really in line with what I'm saying a god is. The confusion is caused by the superstitious removal of Jehovah God's name from the scriptures by the Sopherim. The Sopherim, or scribes, changed 134 passages in the Hebrew texts to read Adhonai [Generic term LORD] in place of the tetragrammaton, YHWH, Jehovah God's personal name. They did this in a superstitious attempt to prevent the common man from profaning the name. So when you see LORD in all upper case it is where the name has been removed.

Afterwards, the generic title of God became somewhat distorted into being applied exclusively to the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. This is the equivalent of saying you don't believe in man because Adam probably didn't exist.
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20-10-2012, 08:02 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
I believe the word "unicorn" is also defined in both Wikipedia and the dictionary. BFD.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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20-10-2012, 08:05 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
Sorry man, TL;DR. Sadcryface

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20-10-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
I have to say Christians are more irrational, or at least their religion. Since Atheism steps away from supernatural concepts - which is mostly just beyond rational explanation if you believe in it. With Atheism you don't really have to edit scientific evidence so your belief makes sense, and other things like that.

I've read your post but I'm finding it hard to see your point on how Atheism is ever irrational, or any evidence to back the title up...can you enlighten me?

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Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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20-10-2012, 08:07 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:02 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  I believe the word "unicorn" is also defined in both Wikipedia and the dictionary. BFD.

The point isn't that Atheism and God are defined in both sources, the point is the definitions themselves. Unicorn isn't a generic term for any person or object that is considered mighty or venerated. God is.
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20-10-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:06 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I have to say Christians are more irrational, or at least their religion. Since Atheism steps away from supernatural concepts - which is mostly just beyond rational explanation if you believe in it. With Atheism you don't really have to edit scientific evidence so your belief makes sense, and other things like that.

Science is the imperfect observations of men, always evolving. It doesn't test the supernatural so from a scientific perspective there can be no rational examination and therefore conclusions drawn regarding it.

There are perceived contradictions within the atheist community and that of the Bible, but these are based entirely upon very poor interpretations. Most people think that the Bible says that the earth and universe is only 6,000 years old. It doesn't state that at all. This sort of ignorance of the Bible creates the illusion with the atheists that the Bible is unscientific which is uninformed.

(20-10-2012 08:06 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I've read your post but I'm finding it hard to see your point on how Atheism is ever irrational, or any evidence to back the title up...can you enlighten me?

Because atheism suggests there are no gods, but there are billions of them.
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20-10-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:05 PM)kim Wrote:  Sorry man, TL;DR. Sadcryface

It isn't much longer than the label on a shampoo bottle. Perhaps, to some, it could be said, as dull, but to each his own, I suppose.
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20-10-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:06 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I have to say Christians are more irrational, or at least their religion. Since Atheism steps away from supernatural concepts - which is mostly just beyond rational explanation if you believe in it. With Atheism you don't really have to edit scientific evidence so your belief makes sense, and other things like that.

I've read your post but I'm finding it hard to see your point on how Atheism is ever irrational, or any evidence to back the title up...can you enlighten me?

Agreed with this post.

As for the OP, I'm not seeing your point that atheism is irrational. I'd say the most rational POV on gods is that, unless evidence of their existence becomes available, it's better to withhold belief. If you don't need evidence to belief stuff, your head is going to be full of garbage. That's why I think atheism is rational: it depends on belief.

You seem to be saying if they believe in them, they're real to that person. Well, a hallucination is real to a schizophrenic, they experience it as real. That doesn't make it objectively real to the rest of us. Same with gods. Just because a person worships something and "feels" that it's real doesn't mean it's objectively real, and it's still only real to that person for so long as they believe in it.

If some atheists have used the 'no true scotsman' fallacy on you, that doesn't mean they all think that.

Quote:Afterwards, the generic title of God became somewhat distorted into being applied exclusively to the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. This is the equivalent of saying you don't believe in man because Adam probably didn't exist.
Well, maybe it's wrong in the sense of Christian beliefs, but it doesn't apply to atheists who don't believe in ANY gods.
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20-10-2012, 08:20 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:14 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 08:06 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I have to say Christians are more irrational, or at least their religion. Since Atheism steps away from supernatural concepts - which is mostly just beyond rational explanation if you believe in it. With Atheism you don't really have to edit scientific evidence so your belief makes sense, and other things like that.

Science is the imperfect observations of men, always evolving. It doesn't test the supernatural so from a scientific perspective there can be no rational examination and therefore conclusions drawn regarding it.

There are perceived contradictions within the atheist community and that of the Bible, but these are based entirely upon very poor interpretations. Most people think that the Bible says that the earth and universe is only 6,000 years old. It doesn't state that at all. This sort of ignorance of the Bible creates the illusion with the atheists that the Bible is unscientific which is uninformed.

(20-10-2012 08:06 PM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I've read your post but I'm finding it hard to see your point on how Atheism is ever irrational, or any evidence to back the title up...can you enlighten me?

Because atheism suggests there are no gods, but there are billions of them.

That's true about science, but the mind is a tricky thing - are you really seeing a ghost or is your mind deceiving you? If Supernatural things occur, then the scientific process should be able to catch it, don't you agree?

Do you worship billions of Gods and believe in all of their creation stories that contradict with all of the other god's history? Also, do you have evidence for these billions of Gods that aren't from the bible?

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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20-10-2012, 08:21 PM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2012 08:25 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 08:07 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 08:02 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  I believe the word "unicorn" is also defined in both Wikipedia and the dictionary. BFD.

The point isn't that Atheism and God are defined in both sources, the point is the definitions themselves. Unicorn isn't a generic term for any person or object that is considered mighty or venerated. God is.

Okay, how about if we replace that with the word fairies? Some people still do worship fairies.

It is stupid how many people end up going to the "real" atheist when most understand that's a lame old "real" christian or not argument that's a fallacy. I haven't looked much at your history of what you said other than knowing you grew up an atheist.. which likely points to you never being a secular rationalist or whichever term may be used.

I don't get the point of the dictionary definitions. Besides what a label says or not, there is a belief held by many people that something in some way controls all the universe that we know of, and people who generally call themselves atheist or some agnostics think there is not enough evidence to believe in such a claim. Nothing is irrational in that idea.

The Canaanites had one of their top gods called El. Did El mean strong in Hebrew or did El become to mean strong in Hebrew because of the association with El. There is also points of these other gods in the bible.. that doesn't lesson any point of atheism at all. It's just the same as saying I don't believe in any deity. A word that doesn't mean just Yahweh.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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