The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
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20-10-2012, 10:04 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 09:55 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Actually. I would greatly appreciate that. I think of you as an atheist. I'm pretty sure that to a greater or lesser extent we think of each other as idiots. I'm not going to deny that for my part. I'm fair and I'm honest. But you are right that I don't have a clue about the subject of evolution. I don't care. I don't see it as a threat or my beliefs as a threat to it. I see them as disagreeing and unlike some, I can handle disagreement if it makes sense to me.
You are mistaken. You believe in a literal Genesis account and as a matter of fact, evolution is not compatible with it. That being said, I can handle disagreements perfectly, what makes you think otherwise?

(20-10-2012 09:55 PM)The Theist Wrote:  If you do this thing for me I will listen to you.
Deal. Wink

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20-10-2012, 10:05 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
Vosur, your title lies.
An efficient German doesn't waste his time on trolls.

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20-10-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
So much anger!

So basically, the argument of the OP, which I skimmed because it was boring, is: because I am widely considered to be a god of sex by many swooning ladyfolk, I cannot rightly agree with them and also be an atheist.

Cute! But stupid. Human language is altogether to imprecise and nuanced to string together definitions like that. Saying I think Hulk Hogan is a god among men doesn't mean I think he has magic powers. (Ermergerd, maybe he DOES!) This is like trying to apply the ideal gas law to complex hydrocarbons and then wondering WHY YOU JUST EXPLODED.

But don't take my word for it! Go apply your logic to some dangerous chemicals. EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.
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20-10-2012, 10:13 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 09:59 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 09:56 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  And WE'RE the ignorant ones?

lolwut?

Son, even the Pope, your leader, recognizes that evolution is a thing now.

If we are talking about the Bible you are, most certainly, fucking ignorant. All of you. But what the hell do you care about, that, smartass? Huh?

About as much as I do evolution.

DNA and Evolution prove the Adam lineage is false. One would think he would care. He doesn't He might actually have to go to school to figure that out. He *thinks* he knows about the Bible. Ha actually knows very little. He has no credentials. He only knows the strange American Fundamentalist view of it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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20-10-2012, 10:13 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 09:59 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 09:56 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  And WE'RE the ignorant ones?

lolwut?

Son, even the Pope, your leader, recognizes that evolution is a thing now.

If we are talking about the Bible you are, most certainly, fucking ignorant. All of you. But what the hell do you care about, that, smartass? Huh?

About as much as I do evolution.

waitwaitwait

Did you just admit that you're willfully ignorant?

It seems to me you just admitted that you know zilch about science and evolution.

You just believe YEC because it's what you JWs do? You don't even question it?

So, why am I the "dumb ass Christian" when you refuse to even look at evidence that is presented to you?

You JWs are a peculiar bunch.

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20-10-2012, 10:15 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 10:05 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Vosur, your title lies.
An efficient German doesn't waste his time on trolls.
I'm on vacation anyway. Drinking Beverage

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21-10-2012, 12:47 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 09:24 PM)The Theist Wrote:  On science books and supporting evidence. Kent Hovind's 100 Reasons why evolution is stupid.

On history and the Bible, you don't know much about either. The most ardent and informed atheists I have ever met, in fact, the two who I mention as being the only informed atheists I have ever met, were history buffs introduced to the Bible by it's importance in an historical context. They don't believe the God but wouldn't be so obtuse to even suggest it's historic insignificance. Read my post on historicity. Or Read the Theological works of Isaac Newton.

I know. You are a confident modern day atheist. An island of arrogance in a rolling sea of stupidity. Your assumptions are as good as gold.

You guys, seriously. Maybe we should listen to him.

I mean after all, Kent Hovind DID receive a doctorate...

...in the vaguely titled "Christian Studies"...

...from an non-accredited Baptist college...

...named Patriot University...

...which people with actual doctorates refer to as "a diploma mill"...

...and is currently serving a 10 year sentence in prison.


Clearly this man knows what he's talking about.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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21-10-2012, 01:32 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
I'm to lazy to count so how many logical fallicies has op commited so far as well as the total number of each?

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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21-10-2012, 05:07 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 07:56 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Wikipedia Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

Merriam Webster Definition of GOD
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality 3 : a person or thing of supreme value 4 : a powerful ruler See god defined for English-language learners »See god defined for kids »

Examples of GOD

Does she believe in God?
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix

If we use god in terms like the ones you give in the example, then everything can be called a god. At that point why not call it for it is. If god is love, the universe, a person that you think is awesome etc... then why call those things gods, other than to point out how amazing they are?

Quote:Atheists are a peculiar thinking people. If you try and define atheism they will angrily tell you that to be an atheist simply means that one doesn't believe in the existence of a god or gods. If you tell them that you were once an atheist they will angrily tell you that you must not have been a "real" atheist. This has happened to me dozens of times.

The first point is correct it's just a position on the question "Does god exist?"

The second point shouldn't happen. Many people are atheists and never think about it, they way a christian might follow their faith and never question it. When the question comes up they choose either to stay or go.

Quote:If you tell an atheist that according to the Bible and a good modern dictionary a god can be anything or anyone they will say you are distorting definitions to suit your own paradigm and your are intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. The fact is, atheists tend to be extremely emotionally fixed upon their idealism, even more so than the religious, and they tend to be grossly ignorant of the Bible because they oppose modern day Christianity and to a lesser extent, any other theology.

Ignorant of the Bible? We probably spend more time in the bible arguing with theists than any other group.

Many of us read the bible, studied it, and have quoted it millions of times.




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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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21-10-2012, 05:26 PM
RE: The Irrational Nature Of Atheism
(20-10-2012 07:56 PM)The Theist Wrote:  1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Wikipedia Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

Merriam Webster Definition of GOD
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality 3 : a person or thing of supreme value 4 : a powerful ruler See god defined for English-language learners »See god defined for kids »

Examples of GOD

Does she believe in God?
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people. If you try and define atheism they will angrily tell you that to be an atheist simply means that one doesn't believe in the existence of a god or gods. If you tell them that you were once an atheist they will angrily tell you that you must not have been a "real" atheist. This has happened to me dozens of times.

If you tell an atheist that according to the Bible and a good modern dictionary a god can be anything or anyone they will say you are distorting definitions to suit your own paradigm and your are intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. The fact is, atheists tend to be extremely emotionally fixed upon their idealism, even more so than the religious, and they tend to be grossly ignorant of the Bible because they oppose modern day Christianity and to a lesser extent, any other theology.

This is my attempt to educate the atheists on what exactly a god, or deity is. God, Gods, Goddesses. The primary argument is that atheism is the disbelief of gods, it denies the existence of gods. The methodology consists of nothing more than the practical common usage of the word God, but no such distinction within the basic tenant of atheism is given, besides, the common usage of a word doesn't negate the other possible uses. The other defense is that the other gods are metaphorical. This is false, because all gods are equally metaphorical in application. The very root of the Hebrew and Greek words for gods indicates this.

What Is A God

The Hebrew word El and variations of it are translated into the English word God. It means "Mighty; Strong." The Greek word theos is the equivalent, and was used to translate El, Elohim, etc. in the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures. When the Hebrew El appears with the definite article ha (ha El, literally meaning "the God" in the Bible it was in reference strictly to Jehovah, but the various terms used without the definite article may be applied to Jehovah, to other gods, to men.

Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God [Hebrew El Gibbohr], Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy of Jesus Christ, who was a man, and is called a mighty God.

Psalm 82:1, 6 God [Hebrew Elohim] is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods [Hebrew elohim] he judges: "I myself have said, 'You are gods [Hebrew elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High.'"

Here Jehovah God calls the human judges of Israel, some of whom were faithful and some of whom were not, gods.

John 10:34, 35 Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said: "You are gods [Greek theoi, Hebrew elohim]?'" If he called 'gods' those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified,

Here Jesus is faced with the same sort of religiosity that the modern day atheist, under the influence of the modern day misguided theist, displays. A poor understanding and almost superstitious definition of what it means to be a god. He corrects them with their own sacred text, Psalm 82:1, 6, given above.

Exodus 4:16; 7:1 And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God [Hebrew lelohim] to him. Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you God [Hebrew elohim] to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet."

Here again Jehovah God refers to a man, Moses, as an appointed God to Pharaoh and to Aaron. All of these verses of men being gods simply mean that they are mighty, strong. Because that is what the word god means. Anything or anyone who is attributed might or is venerated by another. So Jehovah was the God of Israel, meaning he was mighty to Israel, he was venerated by Israel. Dagon was the god [elohim] to the Philistines. (1 Samuel 5:7)

The problem is that atheists as well as most theists see this as some sort of metaphoric distinction, and that isn't the case. They see the one true God negating the others as false and that isn't necessarily so. Some gods of the nations were "valueless gods" in Jehovah's eyes and supposedly to the faithful Israelites, but that didn't mean that all of the other gods were false, or even that any of them were any less of a god in the eyes of the beholder, because that is what a God is. Something or someone with might or strength in the eyes of the beholder.

Why The Confusion?

Jeremiah 23:27
They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.

There is some confusion, though note that the above definition of a god from a modern dictionary is really in line with what I'm saying a god is. The confusion is caused by the superstitious removal of Jehovah God's name from the scriptures by the Sopherim. The Sopherim, or scribes, changed 134 passages in the Hebrew texts to read Adhonai [Generic term LORD] in place of the tetragrammaton, YHWH, Jehovah God's personal name. They did this in a superstitious attempt to prevent the common man from profaning the name. So when you see LORD in all upper case it is where the name has been removed.

Afterwards, the generic title of God became somewhat distorted into being applied exclusively to the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. This is the equivalent of saying you don't believe in man because Adam probably didn't exist.

Thank you for reaffirming why I left religion.

Do you honestly think people here aren't aware of the various definitions and quoted scriptures you provided? Do you honestly think you brought some new "light" that people here never thought about? If you really want to bring something new here that might have some influence, please bring one shred of real evidence that any god exists.

Just one.

And, for the record:
1) The Bible, anything it, and anything concluded from it is not evidence.
2) Anything that leads to an "explanation" such as "we cannot fully know or understand God's plan for us" or "God works in mysterious ways" is not evidence.
3) Personal subjective interpretations (for example, "the world is so beautiful that only God could have created it") are not evidence.

And, by the way, I find statements such as "tell an atheist _____ and they will angrily say _____" offensive and bigoted. Atheists are not all the same. In fact, far from it. The one thing atheists have in common is an absence of belief in a god. That's where the similarity ends. Case in point, every "answer" you provided on behalf of atheists for each "tell an atheist..." statement you made above was incorrect for me - in fact, not even close. You say you came here to educate atheists, but it is you who could use some education.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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