The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
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31-10-2012, 09:08 AM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
Quote:I just don't care.

Allow me to be blunt.

Don't be a douche and waste my time by posting if you have no interest in having a discussion about it.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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31-10-2012, 09:30 AM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 09:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I just don't care.

Allow me to be blunt.

Don't be a douche and waste my time by posting if you have no interest in having a discussion about it.

That was part of the discussion. I just felt I had to indicate that I had no interest in having a discussion about MMP. That would be just like you felt you had to explain it, and just like you felt you had to call me a douche and wasting your time.

My point was I really don't care about alternative electoral systems, including a proportional one. There are good arguments for it, and it could probably be easily argued that it could solve some problems. I just like our system, even with how outdated and prone to problems people might say that it is.

I guess I'm just stuck on our system. Even if I was convinced that an alternative electoral system would work better, quicker, I like and want our system to work so much, I'd still stick with it, regardless.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-10-2012, 04:28 PM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 09:30 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 09:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Allow me to be blunt.

Don't be a douche and waste my time by posting if you have no interest in having a discussion about it.

That was part of the discussion. I just felt I had to indicate that I had no interest in having a discussion about MMP. That would be just like you felt you had to explain it, and just like you felt you had to call me a douche and wasting your time.

My point was I really don't care about alternative electoral systems, including a proportional one. There are good arguments for it, and it could probably be easily argued that it could solve some problems. I just like our system, even with how outdated and prone to problems people might say that it is.

I guess I'm just stuck on our system. Even if I was convinced that an alternative electoral system would work better, quicker, I like and want our system to work so much, I'd still stick with it, regardless.

And there in lays 'Merica's problem.
Not willing to accept change.

You can't rationally like your system. A guy can get over 50% of the votes and still not get in to government. How is that in any shape or form a good DEMOCRATIC electoral system??
And then when one party is in government it's a 1 party show.

Your system is flawed beyond belief, it doesn't work and it can't work.
And because 'Merica is unwilling to change on ANYTHING is 'Merica's biggest weakness.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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31-10-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 04:28 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  And there in lays 'Merica's problem.
Not willing to accept change.

You can't rationally like your system. A guy can get over 50% of the votes and still not get in to government. How is that in any shape or form a good DEMOCRATIC electoral system??
And then when one party is in government it's a 1 party show.

Your system is flawed beyond belief, it doesn't work and it can't work.
And because 'Merica is unwilling to change on ANYTHING is 'Merica's biggest weakness.

I can be prejudice too: Besides being full of shit, you definitely don't know enough about our system to actually have a credible opinion on it.

It has nothing to do with not accepting change. I wouldn't describe myself politically as a liberal, but I'm a liberal. I'm also far to the left; I want a shit load of change to the way things are done in America right now economically, socially and otherwise.

If you want to go on your ignorant rants about American, go to an Islamic extremist forum, or at least comment accordingly. Don't just throw out bullshit criticisms, based in ignorance and audacious stupidity. It's almost like you are arguing, that I can't like our system better, because you don't like our system or America in general, along with other misrepresentations and misunderstandings about how our system actually works. I don't give a shit, like I've already mentioned, about your ideas on our system-- I don't see you as being informed enough to discuss it, regardless --and your opinion isn't correct just because you want it to be.

Do continue, however, I can only imagine that there is a lot more idiocy where that came from. I'm not yet entertained.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-10-2012, 05:42 PM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 05:04 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 04:28 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  And there in lays 'Merica's problem.
Not willing to accept change.

You can't rationally like your system. A guy can get over 50% of the votes and still not get in to government. How is that in any shape or form a good DEMOCRATIC electoral system??
And then when one party is in government it's a 1 party show.

Your system is flawed beyond belief, it doesn't work and it can't work.
And because 'Merica is unwilling to change on ANYTHING is 'Merica's biggest weakness.

I can be prejudice too: Besides being full of shit, you definitely don't know enough about our system to actually have a credible opinion on it.

It has nothing to do with not accepting change. I wouldn't describe myself politically as a liberal, but I'm a liberal. I'm also far to the left; I want a shit load of change to the way things are done in America right now economically, socially and otherwise.

If you want to go on your ignorant rants about American, go to an Islamic extremist forum, or at least comment accordingly. Don't just throw out bullshit criticisms, based in ignorance and audacious stupidity. It's almost like you are arguing, that I can't like our system better, because you don't like our system or America in general, along with other misrepresentations and misunderstandings about how our system actually works. I don't give a shit, like I've already mentioned, about your ideas on our system-- I don't see you as being informed enough to discuss it, regardless --and your opinion isn't correct just because you want it to be.

Do continue, however, I can only imagine that there is a lot more idiocy where that came from. I'm not yet entertained.

lolwut?
I and I I think is on to something when he says 'Mericans see nothing but red when faced with a critic of their country.
Which is another huge flaw of your shitty country btw. Big Grin
Patriotism, worst then religion.

Son, in 1992 Bill got 43% of the popular vote and over 70% of the electoral votes.
lolwut?
Year 2000, well we all know how that went! Al Gore got over 500,000 MORE votes then Bush yet bush got more seats and got in.

Again, your system is EXTREMELY flawed if this is happening.
That's not democratic in anyway shape or form.
How is that "majority dictates", it's not.

So keep prancing around waving your little flag resiting the pledge but that doesn't change the fact that your electoral system is a piece of shit and that MMP is a FARRRR better system.
That's not my opinion BTW, that's FACT.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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31-10-2012, 07:42 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2012 07:46 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 05:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Son, in 1992 Bill got 43% of the popular vote and over 70% of the electoral votes.
lolwut?
Year 2000, well we all know how that went! Al Gore got over 500,000 MORE votes then Bush yet bush got more seats and got in.

Again, your system is EXTREMELY flawed if this is happening.
That's not democratic in anyway shape or form.
How is that "majority dictates", it's not.

So keep prancing around waving your little flag resiting the pledge but that doesn't change the fact that your electoral system is a piece of shit and that MMP is a FARRRR better system.
That's not my opinion BTW, that's FACT.

You can't argue with ignorance.

We don't live in just a democracy, especially not 'the democracy as defined by earmuffs ignorant opinion'. Sorry that someone convinced you of that, but our system is more complex than that. If it's beyond what you can comprehend, don't comment on it.

However, to say that it's not democratic in any way is pure stupidity and/or ignorance. It is just not by the entire nation. It's democratic by electors from states.

We are the United STATES of America, not just America. It has been a huge argument about the power of the federal government vs. the sovereignty of the individual states since our country was founded. Either way you want to look at it, our states elect our president, by number of electoral votes set to each state proportionally, not the popular vote. You have to win, by winning the votes, per state. I'm allowed to like doing it by states, the same as you are allowed to think a popular vote across the whole country is the only way that's not flawed, just because that's the way it worked in your head.

That, again, is just a part of our system, however. That's just how we elect the president/vice president. Our system is way more complex than that, and that only, ineffectively on your part, addresses one small part of our government. I don't care if you've heard someone didn't like the way our presidents are elected, maybe because their guy lost one year and they couldn't come up with any other rational explanations as to why. I like it and don't see the same flaw that you do. I'm not saying our entire system doesn't have any flaws, or even that there is none in this part, I just think, overall, I don't have a problem with the way our system is set up. You can think differently, if you wish.

It's bullshit that your system is better also, but given that you've shown an inability to even understand our system, let alone the basic ideas about governance, common sense, any decent amount of intelligence, or really anything to show you competency, why would you even think you would have an ounce of credibility in making the claim?

Everything you've said thus far has been both completely irrelevant and atrocious argument, over the last couple of your posts, as to why I should even give a fuck, even after I indicated clearly that I didn't. I doubt you would have the capability to argue that your system was the only god given way to go--as you seem to be implying it is--even if that was the case.

I would address all of the stupid shit that you already said up to this point in previous posts, but I really don't even feel like it. You can beat the dead horse if you will. I'd rather you not, but another person might see it applicable to the OP, that you don't like America and prefer MMP. If you want to go on, just don't address it toward me or in response to me. If you want to respond to something in this post, go ahead, but otherwise no more anti-America and no more your system is bad because I like something else, toward me, I don't want to hear it.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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01-11-2012, 03:13 AM
Re: RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(30-10-2012 10:55 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  These 3rd party people are full of shit.

Somebody needs to tell this Rocky Anderson guy, along with all of those other assholes, to stop being so naive and step back into the reality of the system.

I think you are admitting your fine sticking with the reality as you see it.. Fine, but some people don't want to just give to accepting status quo because that's how they have had it.

Of course no 3rd party will splash at this juncture. Giving up any effort is worse than snacking the lazy brained people you know to see they don't need to stay that way. Even of it doesn't change a thing, waking up and seeing a possibility on the horizon improves your capabilities.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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01-11-2012, 05:10 AM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(31-10-2012 07:42 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 05:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Son, in 1992 Bill got 43% of the popular vote and over 70% of the electoral votes.
lolwut?
Year 2000, well we all know how that went! Al Gore got over 500,000 MORE votes then Bush yet bush got more seats and got in.

Again, your system is EXTREMELY flawed if this is happening.
That's not democratic in anyway shape or form.
How is that "majority dictates", it's not.

So keep prancing around waving your little flag resiting the pledge but that doesn't change the fact that your electoral system is a piece of shit and that MMP is a FARRRR better system.
That's not my opinion BTW, that's FACT.

You can't argue with ignorance.

We don't live in just a democracy, especially not 'the democracy as defined by earmuffs ignorant opinion'. Sorry that someone convinced you of that, but our system is more complex than that. If it's beyond what you can comprehend, don't comment on it.

However, to say that it's not democratic in any way is pure stupidity and/or ignorance. It is just not by the entire nation. It's democratic by electors from states.

We are the United STATES of America, not just America. It has been a huge argument about the power of the federal government vs. the sovereignty of the individual states since our country was founded. Either way you want to look at it, our states elect our president, by number of electoral votes set to each state proportionally, not the popular vote. You have to win, by winning the votes, per state. I'm allowed to like doing it by states, the same as you are allowed to think a popular vote across the whole country is the only way that's not flawed, just because that's the way it worked in your head.

That, again, is just a part of our system, however. That's just how we elect the president/vice president. Our system is way more complex than that, and that only, ineffectively on your part, addresses one small part of our government. I don't care if you've heard someone didn't like the way our presidents are elected, maybe because their guy lost one year and they couldn't come up with any other rational explanations as to why. I like it and don't see the same flaw that you do. I'm not saying our entire system doesn't have any flaws, or even that there is none in this part, I just think, overall, I don't have a problem with the way our system is set up. You can think differently, if you wish.

It's bullshit that your system is better also, but given that you've shown an inability to even understand our system, let alone the basic ideas about governance, common sense, any decent amount of intelligence, or really anything to show you competency, why would you even think you would have an ounce of credibility in making the claim?

Everything you've said thus far has been both completely irrelevant and atrocious argument, over the last couple of your posts, as to why I should even give a fuck, even after I indicated clearly that I didn't. I doubt you would have the capability to argue that your system was the only god given way to go--as you seem to be implying it is--even if that was the case.

I would address all of the stupid shit that you already said up to this point in previous posts, but I really don't even feel like it. You can beat the dead horse if you will. I'd rather you not, but another person might see it applicable to the OP, that you don't like America and prefer MMP. If you want to go on, just don't address it toward me or in response to me. If you want to respond to something in this post, go ahead, but otherwise no more anti-America and no more your system is bad because I like something else, toward me, I don't want to hear it.

wow, someone is rather on edge. Just because your country sucks doesn't mean you need to go off your rocker at me son. Your time of month bro? You need to calm your tits.

You're over complicating a very simple situation. Oh and btw I am fully aware of how your flawed electoral system works you don't need to explain it. In fact I've attended a few political university papers and know what the fuck the I'm talking about okay. :Drinking Beverage
Don't give me this "we're states" thing, because it's entirely irrelevant to government that governs everybody.

The simply matter at the end of the day is that the President/Party that is the most popular/favorite doesn't get get in (it can, but so can the second popular party so.. ie: see 2000 election results).
That's not democratic.
Period.

Thus in light of these facts it is flawed, seriously flawed, system for a country that is suppose to be leading the way in democracy. Bit hypocritical to complain about certain shitty Africa/Middle eastern countries who have unpopular governments when sometimes, not all but sometimes, you yourself don't have who the people want.

So you can prat on about how I'm ignorant all you want but it doesn't and never will change the fact that your system is seriously flawed, you're a hypocrite and your country sucks donkey balls.

Oh I'm sorry did I piss you off? What, you gonna invade me because I don't agree with you? Because I doubt that, we don't have much/any oil here so...

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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01-11-2012, 07:33 AM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(01-11-2012 05:10 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 07:42 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  You can't argue with ignorance.

We don't live in just a democracy, especially not 'the democracy as defined by earmuffs ignorant opinion'. Sorry that someone convinced you of that, but our system is more complex than that. If it's beyond what you can comprehend, don't comment on it.

However, to say that it's not democratic in any way is pure stupidity and/or ignorance. It is just not by the entire nation. It's democratic by electors from states.

We are the United STATES of America, not just America. It has been a huge argument about the power of the federal government vs. the sovereignty of the individual states since our country was founded. Either way you want to look at it, our states elect our president, by number of electoral votes set to each state proportionally, not the popular vote. You have to win, by winning the votes, per state. I'm allowed to like doing it by states, the same as you are allowed to think a popular vote across the whole country is the only way that's not flawed, just because that's the way it worked in your head.

That, again, is just a part of our system, however. That's just how we elect the president/vice president. Our system is way more complex than that, and that only, ineffectively on your part, addresses one small part of our government. I don't care if you've heard someone didn't like the way our presidents are elected, maybe because their guy lost one year and they couldn't come up with any other rational explanations as to why. I like it and don't see the same flaw that you do. I'm not saying our entire system doesn't have any flaws, or even that there is none in this part, I just think, overall, I don't have a problem with the way our system is set up. You can think differently, if you wish.

It's bullshit that your system is better also, but given that you've shown an inability to even understand our system, let alone the basic ideas about governance, common sense, any decent amount of intelligence, or really anything to show you competency, why would you even think you would have an ounce of credibility in making the claim?

Everything you've said thus far has been both completely irrelevant and atrocious argument, over the last couple of your posts, as to why I should even give a fuck, even after I indicated clearly that I didn't. I doubt you would have the capability to argue that your system was the only god given way to go--as you seem to be implying it is--even if that was the case.

I would address all of the stupid shit that you already said up to this point in previous posts, but I really don't even feel like it. You can beat the dead horse if you will. I'd rather you not, but another person might see it applicable to the OP, that you don't like America and prefer MMP. If you want to go on, just don't address it toward me or in response to me. If you want to respond to something in this post, go ahead, but otherwise no more anti-America and no more your system is bad because I like something else, toward me, I don't want to hear it.

wow, someone is rather on edge. Just because your country sucks doesn't mean you need to go off your rocker at me son. Your time of month bro? You need to calm your tits.

You're over complicating a very simple situation. Oh and btw I am fully aware of how your flawed electoral system works you don't need to explain it. In fact I've attended a few political university papers and know what the fuck the I'm talking about okay. :Drinking Beverage
Don't give me this "we're states" thing, because it's entirely irrelevant to government that governs everybody.

The simply matter at the end of the day is that the President/Party that is the most popular/favorite doesn't get get in (it can, but so can the second popular party so.. ie: see 2000 election results).
That's not democratic.
Period.

Thus in light of these facts it is flawed, seriously flawed, system for a country that is suppose to be leading the way in democracy. Bit hypocritical to complain about certain shitty Africa/Middle eastern countries who have unpopular governments when sometimes, not all but sometimes, you yourself don't have who the people want.

So you can prat on about how I'm ignorant all you want but it doesn't and never will change the fact that your system is seriously flawed, you're a hypocrite and your country sucks donkey balls.

Oh I'm sorry did I piss you off? What, you gonna invade me because I don't agree with you? Because I doubt that, we don't have much/any oil here so...

You don't understand the complexity of voting/electoral systems; there is no perfect system.

For instance, in a parliamentary system the two major parties will be typically over-represented compared to the popular vote. It can also go the other way. In Manitoba in 1926, the Conservative Party won twice as many votes as any other party but won none of the 17 seats in Parliament.

In a parliamentary system, a small third party can wield enormous power by being the necessary faction to form a government.

The U.S. system has the advantage of turning out a government that isn't succeeding, and it has the advantage of doing so on a scheduled basis. The fact that the voting is tiered is neither good nor bad - it has advantages and disadvantages.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-11-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: The Justice Party and Rocky Anderson
(01-11-2012 03:13 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I think you are admitting your fine sticking with the reality as you see it.. Fine, but some people don't want to just give to accepting status quo because that's how they have had it.

Of course no 3rd party will splash at this juncture. Giving up any effort is worse than snacking the lazy brained people you know to see they don't need to stay that way. Even of it doesn't change a thing, waking up and seeing a possibility on the horizon improves your capabilities.

All reality is reality as I see it. I can't make any judgements beyond what understanding I can gain though my perceptions.

From my perceptions, I think it's clear how things work, and it's clear how you have to go about things if you want to make any real progress. What that does not include, is making a 3rd party and running for president with an amazing 0% statistical chance of actually winning. I don't predict the future, and I've been wrong before, but I don't think legitimate, separate 3rd parties are, at all, the way toward progress.

What I am "fine sticking with", is where any person, from any ideological position on the political spectrum, including Rocky Anderson, who has done this himself, can run for a position in government, at any level, in accordance with the law, as either a Democrat or Republican, even regardless to whether or not they are a hand picked candidate for that party or not, or as an Independent candidate, and win elections.

We saw this in the Republican party, on a national level, with the Tea Party. They worked within the system, and they have made a tremendous impact, like it or not, on the Republican party and national politics.

Ultimately, it comes down to support. Even if you see problems, even if you see major flaws in the fundamental set up and process of the system, and even if you seek to make changes to that, you have to garner the support among the voters that are the very people who are responsible for making that decision about whether or not you get to be in whatever desired position you seek to be in, in order to bring about any type of change. If you don't have the supporters to win that power, you just don't have the power, plain and simple. If you can't get the seat where you are needed the most, and where it is actually realistic, then starting a side show by running for president with no change of winning is asinine.

For me, I guess you can call it naive or stupid if you want, but I still have this idea that we have a "government of the people, by the people, for the people". Democrats are people, Republicans are people, Independent are people, Karl Rove is a person, George Soros is a person, voters in every state and every congressional district are people. Niggas bleed. If you don't have the ability to win a battle of ideas in order to turn a red district blue, or a light blue district dark, to convince any group of idiots that they actually have some control of no longer being fucked over and nominate and get elected people to represent, to fix extremely easy and fixable shit, then you don't deserve to have a successful government or a prosperous people.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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