"The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
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14-05-2015, 01:25 PM
"The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
As my atheism is recent, I've only recently been seeking out movies with an atheist theme.

"The Ledge" was pretty good. And I saw "God's Not Dead" Facepalm wow. But it's important to at least know what inspired "God's Not Dead". I sense a lot of frustration that Christians felt a little picked on by Hollywood. Especially with movies like "The Ledge", but even before that. How many Christian movie critics have said, "oh of course, the religious guy is the bad guy."

Then there's the complexity that's in character development that smart movie watchers actually appreciate, that many conservative Christians peculiarly seem to hate. I'm talking specifically about how the bad guy isn't all bad and how the good guy isn't all good. I don't know how many times I've gone to church and heard the pastor complain about movies and say, "Well, with movies these days, I don't know who I'm rooting for. The bad guy is good, and the good guy is bad!" With "God's Not Dead", finally, oh, FINALLY, we get a movie where we have a nice, good, clean cut, cookie cutter Christian going up against an evil, bad, liberal, atheist with an empty heart who hates all things good especially God. FINALLY!

Now I could write a book on the problems with "God's Not Dead". But the 2 dimensional characters in the movie is what concerns me for this thread. And "The Ledge" isn't as bad, but it still gets a little bit simple with the idea that the villain is bad and the hero is good, to the point that unfortunately Christians will feel too offended to get the real message that the film has to deliver. And I agree, it's a good message.

A small flaw with "The Ledge", when the 2 main characters are on the roof, and he's showing her the stars in the sky at night, and it's a clear night.... ?!?! Isn't this in the middle of downtown?! There's a factory right behind the hotel that the movie makes us very well aware of at the beginning of the film. That night would not be that clear. It was a beautiful moment. I loved the message he was trying to convey to her. But I'm also from the city. Our nights are not that beautiful to look at.

Also, I have another problem with the characterization. I'm glad we have a movie that attempts to open a dialogue about atheism. That's great. But I had a problem with the atheist character, that he had a tragic past. Now this may be my own problem. In fact, I really would not ask the director to change that. But I would like for once an atheist character for which nothing tragic happened in their past. Now, I'm unclear as to whether him losing his daughter affected his turning to atheism or if he already was. But you can see why Christians look at things like that, and then ask real atheists, "What happened to you that made you an atheist?"

Anyway, I'm hoping more movies are pumped out that cause us to have open dialogue on theism. (Yes, I am grateful to "God's Not Dead" for that much at least).
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14-05-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
If you're at all interested in documentaries, some good ones to catch include:

Religulous
The Unbelievers
The God Who Wasn't There
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14-05-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:38 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  If you're at all interested in documentaries, some good ones to catch include:

Religulous
The Unbelievers
The God Who Wasn't There

I loved Religulous! Thumbsup
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14-05-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
I liked The Ledge, it's not a perfect film in it's characterization but it does address the perception of atheism question well so I supported it for that, and I like Charlie Hunnam.

I still am baffled when I see people saying they actually saw God's Not Dead, I saw the trailer and was good from that point understanding anything further would be a mega facepalming nightmare.

I recall liking the movie, The Man Who Sued God but I only marginally remember that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-05-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:43 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 01:38 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  If you're at all interested in documentaries, some good ones to catch include:

Religulous
The Unbelievers
The God Who Wasn't There

I loved Religulous! Thumbsup

I thought Religulous would have been better without Bill Maher being a smarmy, self-important, dick. His position of superiority doesn't really help improve how atheism is viewed by the general public.
I like Bill most of the time, but he can be a snob sometimes.
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14-05-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:25 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  As my atheism is recent, I've only recently been seeking out movies with an atheist theme.

"The Ledge" was pretty good. And I saw "God's Not Dead" Facepalm wow. But it's important to at least know what inspired "God's Not Dead". I sense a lot of frustration that Christians felt a little picked on by Hollywood. Especially with movies like "The Ledge", but even before that. How many Christian movie critics have said, "oh of course, the religious guy is the bad guy."

Then there's the complexity that's in character development that smart movie watchers actually appreciate, that many conservative Christians peculiarly seem to hate. I'm talking specifically about how the bad guy isn't all bad and how the good guy isn't all good. I don't know how many times I've gone to church and heard the pastor complain about movies and say, "Well, with movies these days, I don't know who I'm rooting for. The bad guy is good, and the good guy is bad!" With "God's Not Dead", finally, oh, FINALLY, we get a movie where we have a nice, good, clean cut, cookie cutter Christian going up against an evil, bad, liberal, atheist with an empty heart who hates all things good especially God. FINALLY!

Now I could write a book on the problems with "God's Not Dead". But the 2 dimensional characters in the movie is what concerns me for this thread. And "The Ledge" isn't as bad, but it still gets a little bit simple with the idea that the villain is bad and the hero is good, to the point that unfortunately Christians will feel too offended to get the real message that the film has to deliver. And I agree, it's a good message.

A small flaw with "The Ledge", when the 2 main characters are on the roof, and he's showing her the stars in the sky at night, and it's a clear night.... ?!?! Isn't this in the middle of downtown?! There's a factory right behind the hotel that the movie makes us very well aware of at the beginning of the film. That night would not be that clear. It was a beautiful moment. I loved the message he was trying to convey to her. But I'm also from the city. Our nights are not that beautiful to look at.

Also, I have another problem with the characterization. I'm glad we have a movie that attempts to open a dialogue about atheism. That's great. But I had a problem with the atheist character, that he had a tragic past. Now this may be my own problem. In fact, I really would not ask the director to change that. But I would like for once an atheist character for which nothing tragic happened in their past. Now, I'm unclear as to whether him losing his daughter affected his turning to atheism or if he already was. But you can see why Christians look at things like that, and then ask real atheists, "What happened to you that made you an atheist?"

Anyway, I'm hoping more movies are pumped out that cause us to have open dialogue on theism. (Yes, I am grateful to "God's Not Dead" for that much at least).

I haven't seen either of these movies. However, I agree with you about the stereotype a lot of christians have about atheists. It's like, "Oh well something bad had to happen for you to want to be an atheist." No, how about I just started applying reason and logic and science and history etc. and realized religion is all bs? I just think it is very hard for some who are extremely religious to understand that people can and do walk away from religion without tragedy befalling them.
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14-05-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:50 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 01:43 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I loved Religulous! Thumbsup

I thought Religulous would have been better without Bill Maher being a smarmy, self-important, dick. His position of superiority doesn't really help improve how atheism is viewed by the general public.
I like Bill most of the time, but he can be a snob sometimes.

Yeah, but that's his schtick.
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14-05-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:25 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  As my atheism is recent, I've only recently been seeking out movies with an atheist theme.

"The Ledge" was pretty good. And I saw "God's Not Dead" Facepalm wow. But it's important to at least know what inspired "God's Not Dead". I sense a lot of frustration that Christians felt a little picked on by Hollywood. Especially with movies like "The Ledge", but even before that. How many Christian movie critics have said, "oh of course, the religious guy is the bad guy."

Then there's the complexity that's in character development that smart movie watchers actually appreciate, that many conservative Christians peculiarly seem to hate. I'm talking specifically about how the bad guy isn't all bad and how the good guy isn't all good. I don't know how many times I've gone to church and heard the pastor complain about movies and say, "Well, with movies these days, I don't know who I'm rooting for. The bad guy is good, and the good guy is bad!" With "God's Not Dead", finally, oh, FINALLY, we get a movie where we have a nice, good, clean cut, cookie cutter Christian going up against an evil, bad, liberal, atheist with an empty heart who hates all things good especially God. FINALLY!

Now I could write a book on the problems with "God's Not Dead". But the 2 dimensional characters in the movie is what concerns me for this thread. And "The Ledge" isn't as bad, but it still gets a little bit simple with the idea that the villain is bad and the hero is good, to the point that unfortunately Christians will feel too offended to get the real message that the film has to deliver. And I agree, it's a good message.

A small flaw with "The Ledge", when the 2 main characters are on the roof, and he's showing her the stars in the sky at night, and it's a clear night.... ?!?! Isn't this in the middle of downtown?! There's a factory right behind the hotel that the movie makes us very well aware of at the beginning of the film. That night would not be that clear. It was a beautiful moment. I loved the message he was trying to convey to her. But I'm also from the city. Our nights are not that beautiful to look at.

Also, I have another problem with the characterization. I'm glad we have a movie that attempts to open a dialogue about atheism. That's great. But I had a problem with the atheist character, that he had a tragic past. Now this may be my own problem. In fact, I really would not ask the director to change that. But I would like for once an atheist character for which nothing tragic happened in their past. Now, I'm unclear as to whether him losing his daughter affected his turning to atheism or if he already was. But you can see why Christians look at things like that, and then ask real atheists, "What happened to you that made you an atheist?"

Anyway, I'm hoping more movies are pumped out that cause us to have open dialogue on theism. (Yes, I am grateful to "God's Not Dead" for that much at least).

Movies with atheist theme you say? One could say that documentary films about WW 2, Khmers Rouge, Holodomor and Stalin or Hitler are atheistic in a sense - these show that benvolent god is nothing more than a fairy tale, some of them might even tell you something about so called secular religion and per analogy how god was created by man.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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14-05-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:43 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I still am baffled when I see people saying they actually saw God's Not Dead, I saw the trailer and was good from that point understanding anything further would be a mega facepalming nightmare.

Yeah, don't. If you saw the trailer, you saw the movie. That's it.

It's good for a laugh, and maybe a drinking game.

Oh yeah, and at least check out the debate. You'll Laugh out load You'll Weeping You'll Hobo



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14-05-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: "The Ledge" vs. "God's Not Dead"
(14-05-2015 01:25 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  As my atheism is recent, I've only recently been seeking out movies with an atheist theme.

"The Ledge" was pretty good. And I saw "God's Not Dead" Facepalm wow.

Sorry, The Ledge sucked, even though God's Not Dead was perhaps worse. It was in some sense the atheists equivalent of a bad Christian movie. Though some bad Christian movies, can have a pulp appeal.

To me some good Christian/Religious movies, would be the Tree of Life, the works of Andrey Tarkovskiy, The Gospel According to St. Matthew (directed by a gay commie atheist), True Grit, The Road, Selma, Silence (though the movie is not out, the book was great).

Some good atheists works, would be A Serious Man, Inside Llewyn Davis, Antichrist, Amour, Zoolander.
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