The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
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24-05-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
double post

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24-05-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
Hi beautiful Heart Emma Heart I love your new picture. Looking good, girl! Thumbsup

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24-05-2017, 03:50 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
JesseB Wrote:Currently I'm having a very low tolerance for ignorant bullshit.
Hmm, for some reason I always thought that tolerance is one of your qualities. JK, JK, JK

So, I was saying that when God didn't permit His covenant people to marry people from different nations it was NOT because of their nationality, race or skin color.
Sometimes God allowed to marry people from different nations.
If God withholds some blessings from a person or a group of people it has nothing to do with their skin color, race, age or gender.


JesseB Wrote:Judges 21:10-24....
--Here's just one part where he commands all the women who are virgins be spared to be used as wives, in the law any woman can be taken and given a week to mourn the death of her family then forced to marry the man who killed her family. That's jewish law. As handed down by their god (supposedly since I don't buy any of it, personally. However anyone who buys into the bible has no excuse)

This is when house of Israel forsook her covenant with God and EVERY man DID that which was THE RIGHT in his OWN EYES. ( Judges chapter 17:6 and chapter 21:25 )
Yes, people are not perfect, even those who make covenant with God. It is not surprise for me.
I have to leave now. I will respond to other verses if you want to.

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24-05-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 03:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  
BeccaBoo Wrote:Homosexual relationships cannot work in the church because they would mean women don't need men and if women don't need men then the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is not needed for everyone who is exalted, and that undermines the totality of the Restoration of the church.
Oh, this is what you think? Interesting. Are you sure you were LDS?

I don't know how long you were LDS(if it is even true) but most likely not for a long time. You seem not to know or not to understand the doctrine of exaltation.

Every LDS knows or suppose to know that not only women need men, men need women. No man can be exalted without a woman and no woman can be exalted without a man.
Have you ever understood why a man can not be exalted without a woman? why a woman can not be exalted without a man? You had to understand this if you were LDS.

Imagine if I tell my child:" you don't have to study/to go to school if you don't want to even though it means that you will have no progress, you will be uneducated person". It would make me a horrible mother/parent.
If God permitted homosexual marriage, if He blessed and sanctified it, it would mean that God wouldn't care that some of His children would NOT be exalted ever.
Do you know why it takes a male and female to be exalted? You should, if it is true you were LDS.
Do you know why LDS prophets don't even bother to ask what you wanted them to ask? We already know that no man can be exalted without woman and no woman can be exalted without man. We also know WHY it is not possible for a man to be exalted without a woman, why it is not possible for a woman to be exalted without a man.
Do you, sister?

P.S. I also asked you if you believe in God Elohim and if you have/or had testimony of the First Vision. If your answers are "no" and "no" then never mind my complete post.

BeccaBoo Wrote:then the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is not needed for everyone who is exalted

If you were LDS you would never say this. Nobody can be exalted without marriage. Not one person. There is no any exaltation without marriage. Do you even know why? I am not sure you do.

Alla, of course I know that and more. I was given a new name, and my husband was given his, but his was not for me to know, though he knew my name so he could take me through the veil. I covenanted to heed my husband as long as he obeyed the Lord.

You may like to think that D&C 132 describes a gender-equal marriage covenant, but it does not. Neither is the marriage covenant in the temple gender equal. Of course the spin in Mormonism is that the man needs the woman as the woman needs the man, but, in actual doctrine, a man can be sealed to many women and have many wives in the Celestial Kingdom while a woman can only be sealed to one man.

D&C 132 also includes the rules for polygamous marriage. A man was supposed to seek consent for polygamy from his first wife. If she refused to accept it, she was to be destroyed.

Anyways, I don't think you understood my point. Maybe it is a language barrier?

Even if the LDS prophet wanted to adopt gay marriage, there would be tremendous doctrinal hurdles, that is why I said,

"Homosexual relationships cannot work in the church because they would mean women don't need men and if women don't need men then the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is not needed for everyone who is exalted, and that undermines the totality of the Restoration of the church."

I am implying that, in the church, man and woman are required for The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. That is why, unless a major change in doctrine is revealed to the church, gay marriage cannot qualify for The New and Everlasting Covenant. Or, if somehow the prophet said gay marriages did qualify for exaltation, then that would be the New and Everlasting Covenant is not necessary. Either way, there is a big problem.

This is pretty straightforward, Alla. Perhaps you get confused because I am trying to simultaneously describe the role of sexism in polygamy and then in homophobia.
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24-05-2017, 05:35 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
I had to recite hundreds of verses and you had to do it by either giving the verse number or the verse itself depending on what the teacher wanted so there was no short cuts). And you
JesseB Wrote:See I was sent off to a nice religious school I had to memorize the whole damn book to graduate the 6th grade (not joking the test took hours and you had to recite hundreds of verses and you had to do it by either giving the verse number or the verse itself depending on what the teacher wanted so there was no short cuts). And you wonder why I am not a theist, unlike most theists I've read the book. Fastest way to Atheism is to become a pastor. Theists would be amazed at how many clergy are non believers themselves. .
Actually, I don't wonder why you are not a theist. I don't care why people are believers or why they are atheists.

What happened at those times really doesn't bother me and I don't really care about it.

Those were weird times with weird people and weird cultures and traditions.
In the beginning house of Israel was given higher laws of the Gospel not laws of Moses. But because house of Israel was not ready for them God gave them lower laws of the Gospel.
The only laws Israelites could understand.
In those times people had wars all the time and only strong people with very powerful God could survive. YHWH had to be that powerful God whom enemies of Israel had to be afraid.
God had to preserve and to save house of Israel not other nations. Salvation of other nations supposed to happened in the future after the Atonement.

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24-05-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 05:00 PM)BeccaBoo Wrote:  
(24-05-2017 03:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  Oh, this is what you think? Interesting. Are you sure you were LDS?

I don't know how long you were LDS(if it is even true) but most likely not for a long time. You seem not to know or not to understand the doctrine of exaltation.

Every LDS knows or suppose to know that not only women need men, men need women. No man can be exalted without a woman and no woman can be exalted without a man.
Have you ever understood why a man can not be exalted without a woman? why a woman can not be exalted without a man? You had to understand this if you were LDS.

Imagine if I tell my child:" you don't have to study/to go to school if you don't want to even though it means that you will have no progress, you will be uneducated person". It would make me a horrible mother/parent.
If God permitted homosexual marriage, if He blessed and sanctified it, it would mean that God wouldn't care that some of His children would NOT be exalted ever.
Do you know why it takes a male and female to be exalted? You should, if it is true you were LDS.
Do you know why LDS prophets don't even bother to ask what you wanted them to ask? We already know that no man can be exalted without woman and no woman can be exalted without man. We also know WHY it is not possible for a man to be exalted without a woman, why it is not possible for a woman to be exalted without a man.
Do you, sister?

P.S. I also asked you if you believe in God Elohim and if you have/or had testimony of the First Vision. If your answers are "no" and "no" then never mind my complete post.


If you were LDS you would never say this. Nobody can be exalted without marriage. Not one person. There is no any exaltation without marriage. Do you even know why? I am not sure you do.

Alla, of course I know that and more. I was given a new name, and my husband was given his, but his was not for me to know, though he knew my name so he could take me through the veil. I covenanted to heed my husband as long as he obeyed the Lord.

You may like to think that D&C 132 describes a gender-equal marriage covenant, but it does not. Neither is the marriage covenant in the temple gender equal. Of course the spin in Mormonism is that the man needs the woman as the woman needs the man, but, in actual doctrine, a man can be sealed to many women and have many wives in the Celestial Kingdom while a woman can only be sealed to one man.

D&C 132 also includes the rules for polygamous marriage. A man was supposed to seek consent for polygamy from his first wife. If she refused to accept it, she was to be destroyed.

Anyways, I don't think you understood my point. Maybe it is a language barrier?

Even if the LDS prophet wanted to adopt gay marriage, there would be tremendous doctrinal hurdles, that is why I said,

"Homosexual relationships cannot work in the church because they would mean women don't need men and if women don't need men then the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is not needed for everyone who is exalted, and that undermines the totality of the Restoration of the church."

I am implying that, in the church, man and woman are required for The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. That is why, unless a major change in doctrine is revealed to the church, gay marriage cannot qualify for The New and Everlasting Covenant. Or, if somehow the prophet said gay marriages did qualify for exaltation, then that would be the New and Everlasting Covenant is not necessary. Either way, there is a big problem.

This is pretty straightforward, Alla. Perhaps you get confused because I am trying to simultaneously describe the role of sexism in polygamy and then in homophobia.

Do I understand you correctly? you just don't believe that LDS Doctrine is true. You don't believe in Doctrine of exaltation. You don't believe in Doctrine eternal marriage.
If this is the case I have no more questions and it makes sense that you left the Church.
I can only wish you all the best, sister. Heart

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-05-2017, 07:00 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, I was saying that when God didn't permit His covenant people to marry people from different nations it was NOT because of their nationality, race or skin color.
Sometimes God allowed to marry people from different nations.
If God withholds some blessings from a person or a group of people it has nothing to do with their skin color, race, age or gender.

No shit, Sherlock.
1 Kings : 11:3 "Solomon had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.”

Literally every other king in the Near East was his father-in-law. Facepalm
Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-05-2017, 07:34 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 07:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No shit, Sherlock.
1 Kings : 11:3 "Solomon had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.”

Literally every other king in the Near East was his father-in-law. Facepalm
Tongue
He wasn't perfect man, I can say this for sure.
Weird people, weird times. It is hard to understand those people for someone who lives in the 21st century. I am talking about myself.

English is my second language.
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24-05-2017, 07:50 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
BeccaBoo Wrote:I am implying that, in the church, man and woman are required for The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. That is why, unless a major change in doctrine is revealed to the church, gay marriage cannot qualify for The New and Everlasting Covenant.
Oh, just one more question: do you understand why this kind of change in doctrine can NOT and will NEVER be revealed?
God's doctrine about marriage never changed, it was, is and always will be one Adam and one Eve or one Adam and more than one Eve.
The practice can be changed but not eternal doctrine, it never evolves.

But again if you don't believe in Restored Gospel I can understand your position on gay marriage. It is OK with me. I can respect this.

English is my second language.
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24-05-2017, 08:07 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 07:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-05-2017 07:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No shit, Sherlock.
1 Kings : 11:3 "Solomon had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.”

Literally every other king in the Near East was his father-in-law. Facepalm
Tongue
He wasn't perfect man, I can say this for sure.
Weird people, weird times. It is hard to understand those people for someone who lives in the 21st century. I am talking about myself.

The Chosen People were *weird* ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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