The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
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24-05-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
Alla,
I think Anderson Cooper said it for us.
Laughat





Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-05-2017, 12:31 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 12:36 AM by BeccaBoo.)
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(24-05-2017 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
BeccaBoo Wrote:I am implying that, in the church, man and woman are required for The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. That is why, unless a major change in doctrine is revealed to the church, gay marriage cannot qualify for The New and Everlasting Covenant.
Oh, just one more question: do you understand why this kind of change in doctrine can NOT and will NEVER be revealed?
God's doctrine about marriage never changed, it was, is and always will be one Adam and one Eve or one Adam and more than one Eve.
The practice can be changed but not eternal doctrine, it never evolves.

But again if you don't believe in Restored Gospel I can understand your position on gay marriage. It is OK with me. I can respect this.

I understand current cosmology quite well, but as I said in my OP post, my belief in it broke and I am now (unofficially) ex-Mormon.

The purpose of my post was to describe my views on homophobia within Mormonism and then, finally, outside it.

I stopped believing when I was quite certain that Joseph Smith was not a prophet: for an extended period of time I had to deal with someone who deliberately lied about important things which hurt people deeply, who persisted in it without repenting. It became clear to me that such actions cannot be compatible with a prophet of God.

Previously in my life I knew Joseph deliberately lied to people about important things resulting in deep hurt and he did not repent of that. I had rationalised that perhaps God could make a prophet out of such a man despite his deliberate, grievous, unrepentant sinning, my personal experience taught me otherwise.

I describe my deconversion from Mormonism in the thread for deconversions, I'm on the last couple pages.

To your point about doctrine, it has explicitly changed in Mormonism. Much has changed significantly, including the First Vision retellings. The church changes doctrine, most likely when it needs to do so. I don't think Mormonism can accept homosexual couples for exaltation, though, because that would be too earthshattering to the LDS cosmology.

The church is trapped in regards to marriage equaloty because it lds cosmology is based on sexism.
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25-05-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
The problem comes when law and religion are the same.

In a secular society, marriage becomes a societal contract and whatever ceremony you add onto that is unimportant to the law. You can do nothing, or have loads of people watch and then eat some food, or you can have a conversation with imaginary beings and make promises to them also.

But when religion runs the law, the ceremony is part of it all. And so religious rules interfere.

I don't care if you decide not to marry someone because you feel it's against your religion. It's really sad, if you otherwise would want to, but it's up to you. However, you shouldn't get to project this onto others.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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25-05-2017, 12:51 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 12:54 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
I have a question, while we're on the subject of marriage:

If religious people see marriage as a contract with God, why do they so often also desire a societal contract bound by human law?

(I'm talking about secular countries of course.)

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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25-05-2017, 02:14 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(25-05-2017 12:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I have a question, while we're on the subject of marriage:

If religious people see marriage as a contract with God, why do they so often also desire a societal contract bound by human law?

(I'm talking about secular countries of course.)

1. Some believe obedience to the law is required by their religion. That is what I was taught the forty years I was Mormon and it was undeed decreed in LDS scripture. (However, Joseph Smith broke the law secretly and used the temple to keep polygamy a secret.)

2. Some believe in some flavor of theocracy.
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25-05-2017, 02:29 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(25-05-2017 12:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If religious people see marriage as a contract with God, why do they so often also desire a societal contract bound by human law?

The thing that annoys me is that the societal contract bound by human law is the one that they try to exclude others from. FUCK you and your religion, go get your religious marriage as much as you want. Just don't push your bullshit onto people who don't share your stupid ideas.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-05-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(20-05-2017 07:17 AM)BeccaBoo Wrote:  It’s a new day. Time to live bigger and better.

-BeccaBoo

are you coming out soon?
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25-05-2017, 06:02 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(25-05-2017 05:39 AM)AB517 Wrote:  
(20-05-2017 07:17 AM)BeccaBoo Wrote:  It’s a new day. Time to live bigger and better.

-BeccaBoo

are you coming out soon?

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25-05-2017, 07:40 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(23-05-2017 12:13 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  "Marriages" are not in the hands of the church, WEDDINGS are in the hands of the church. Marriage is still very much a secular, state function. The only connection is that priests are authorized under secular law to sign the marriage certificate in lieu of a judge. Period.
Fun theological aside, even in the Catholic Church, you don't ask a priest to marry you, technically. The couple does the actual "marriage" in their pledging themselves to one another and such (and by filling out the paperwork mandated by the state, as an extension of that). The priest, meanwhile, does exactly what you've said, presides over the wedding and signs the certificate. Smile

(23-05-2017 07:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  The same with priesthood. Some people can not have priesthood for different reasons...Race or skin color has nothing to do with this.

Alla...no. From your own church's website:

Quote:In 1852, President Brigham Young publicly announced that men of black African descent could no longer be ordained to the priesthood, though thereafter blacks continued to join the Church through baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.

And off to a workshop.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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25-05-2017, 07:49 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
Robvalue Wrote:If religious people see marriage as a contract with God, why do they so often also desire a societal contract bound by human law?
This is how I understand this.
When LDS couples decide to be sealed in the Temple for ETERNITY it means they are READY to make covenant/promises before God and before witnesses that they want to be together for TIME and ETERNITY.
To be married by human law also means to make a covenant to be together FOR TIME no matter what happens. They MAKE PROMISES to each other.
If a man and a woman are NOT READY to make this kind of promises to each other for a life time before witnesses they are definitely are NOT ready to make covenant to be together for eternity. This is why they can not be sealed for eternity. You have to be ready. To be sealed for eternity is big deal, it is not a joke to make this kind of promises.

P.S. I always wanted to ask: If papers don't matter then why not marry? No big deal, no big difference.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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