The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
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26-05-2017, 07:21 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(26-05-2017 07:14 AM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:@Alla.... from what I can tell Becca sounds like someone who has bothered to learn about the LDS, the actual historical record, not the lies they feed you.

I continued to go to Church while I still continued to study anti-Mormon sources. Eventually I came to conclusion that many of those sources are distorted information, misunderstood information, probably even intentional lies.

> Can you be more specific?
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26-05-2017, 07:54 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2017 07:59 AM by Alla.)
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
BeccaBoo Wrote:Don't ask me obvious questions, Alla. You're not a baby.

1)No, you didn't show me that change. We still believe that Cain descendants have dark skin. We still believe that NOT all dark skinned people are descendant of Cain. So, what changed?
2)Please, give me a list of BOM doctrines that were changed. I don't know any doctrine that was changed.


BeccaBoo Wrote:Here's one more, in reference to your final question: the Book of Mormon title page used to call the Lamanites the"principle ancestors of the native American." Now that has been quietly changed to the Lamanites are "among the principle ancestors..."
Yes, but what BOM doctrine are you talking about here? BOM doesn't have any doctrine about native Americans.


BeccaBoo Wrote:According to the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites and Nephites were clans started when the children of Lehi came to the Americas after escaping Jerusalem with the brass plates of Laban.
That's it? Your answer is not complete. BTW there is a reason why I asked you this question, by reading some of your statements I expected this incomplete answer from you.

Who else are the Lamanites according to the BOM? I assume you read and studied BOM.


BeccaBoo Wrote:You probably don't want to believe any of this, and that is the normal response
BELIEVE. This is the key word. You don't know you BELIEVE that those sources are true. You BELIEVE you understand EVERYTHING B.Young or J.Smith said.


BeccaBoo Wrote:But if you ever allow yourself to consider the possibility that the church is not true and then look at it all that way, it can be extremely painful
I did allow myself this possibility when I was investigator. I took it very, very seriously. I read a bunch of anti-Mormon sources right after I was baptized. I didn't look for those sources they found me. But then one day it happened: this incredible power came over me and at that moment I KNEW that Joseph Smith was true prophet of God. I can not describe this with words. This is what happened to me when I was an atheist in the USSR. One day this power came over me and the same instance an atheist became a believer. I KNEW that Christ was real and that He was Son of God. I KNEW that He loves me and I loved Him. Those two moments were so incredible and I will never forget them. The impression was undeniable and powerful.
Nobody in the Church could convince me but this mysterious power did. I believe it was power of the Holy Ghost. On this I build my faith.
I do not BELIEVE anti-Mormon sources because I see many lies.
Becoming LDS became a blessing to me and to my family. Missionaries came exactly when I needed them. My Heavenly Father sent them to me. HE KNEW when the right moment was.
He gathered me to the house of Israel. Many things that I was looking for many years I found in the Church. I had some specific questions and I found answers.
I will never go back.

P.S. So, Becca, according to the BOM who are the Lamanites (besides that some of them were descendants of Lehi)? I wish you all the best, my sister ,whom I probably knew long, long time ago. We were on the same side. Not any more.
Before we accept Gospel we are on neutral side. After we reject Gospel we can not be on neutral side.
Second estate. I am grateful for it. I want to keep it.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-05-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(26-05-2017 07:14 AM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:@Alla.... from what I can tell Becca sounds like someone who has bothered to learn about the LDS, the actual historical record, not the lies they feed you.

Just when I joined Church 13 years ago I had an opportunity to read all those sources BeccaBoo is talking to me about right now. She is not the first from whom I hear all this. I told myself; "oh my, I better run away from this evil Church".
But I didn't, I followed my gut feeling I continued to go to Church while I still continued to study anti-Mormon sources. Eventually I came to conclusion that many of those sources are distorted information, misunderstood information, probably even intentional lies.
I can not be sure but I have this strong suspicion that BeccaBoo didn't leave Church because she did her re-search. She started to do her re-search because she already wanted to leave the Church. But this is OK with me. She has the right to make her own decisions and I will never judge her for leaving the Church. I still believe she is my spiritual sister. She is still someone whom I would serve with gladness if we knew each other personally.

P.S. many things that were quoted can be easily misunderstood. All those source are subjects to interpretation and people usually interpret the same things differently.

First, I only quoted LDS scripture, prophets, and apostles.

Second, I did not say I left because of research or because I wanted to leave. I left because I had an experience that taught me that Joseph Smith was not a prophet. I acted in faith and came to that knowledge which meant the entire narrative of Mormonism is unsustainable. It was only then that all the history that I knew suddenly looked different because I was no longer stuck in the bubble.

Third, a real sister in Christ does not continually question the personal statements of another as you have done. I assume you are LDS if you say you are unless you conclusively demonstrate otherwise. So if you want to be a true sister, pay me the same respect.

Gracias muchacha y vaya con Dios. Sorry for the poor Spanish...it's only my fourth language Wink
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26-05-2017, 08:04 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
TO BECCABOO
Can you share this experience, please?


BeccaBoo Wrote:Third, a real sister in Christ does not continually question the personal statements of another as you have done
I don't know you. I don't know if you are LDS. But you sound like someone who is not LDS or like someone who doesn't know much.
I can be wrong. This is why I question your statements.
If I KNEW you were LDS I wouldn't ask you those questions. I would just listened to you.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-05-2017, 08:06 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(26-05-2017 07:54 AM)Alla Wrote:  
BeccaBoo Wrote:Don't ask me obvious questions, Alla. You're not a baby.

1)No, you didn't show me that change. We still believe that Cain descendants have dark skin. We still believe that NOT all dark skinned people are descendant of Cain. So, what changed?
2)Please, give me a list of BOM doctrines that were changed. I don't know any doctrine that was changed.


BeccaBoo Wrote:Here's one more, in reference to your final question: the Book of Mormon title page used to call the Lamanites the"principle ancestors of the native American." Now that has been quietly changed to the Lamanites are "among the principle ancestors..."
Yes, but what BOM doctrine are you talking about here? BOM doesn't have any doctrine about native Americans.


BeccaBoo Wrote:According to the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites and Nephites were clans started when the children of Lehi came to the Americas after escaping Jerusalem with the brass plates of Laban.
That's it? Your answer is not complete. BTW there is a reason why I asked you this question, by reading some of your statements I expected this incomplete answer from you.

Who else are the Lamanites according to the BOM? I assume you read and studied BOM.


BeccaBoo Wrote:You probably don't want to believe any of this, and that is the normal response
BELIEVE. This is the key word. You don't know you BELIEVE that those sources are true. You BELIEVE you understand EVERYTHING B.Young or J.Smith said.


BeccaBoo Wrote:But if you ever allow yourself to consider the possibility that the church is not true and then look at it all that way, it can be extremely painful
I did allow myself this possibility when I was investigator. I took it very, very seriously. I read a bunch of anti-Mormon sources right after I was baptized. I didn't look for those sources they found me. But then one day it happened: this incredible power came over me and at that moment I KNEW that Joseph Smith was true prophet of God. I can not describe this with words. This is what happened to me when I was an atheist in the USSR. One day this power came over me and the same instance an atheist became a believer. I KNEW that Christ was real and that He was Son of God. I KNEW that He loves me and I loved Him. Those two moments were so incredible and I will never forget them. The impression was undeniable and powerful.
Nobody in the Church could convince me but this mysterious power did. I believe it was power of the Holy Ghost. On this I build my faith.
I do not BELIEVE anti-Mormon sources because I see many lies.
Becoming LDS became a blessing to me and to my family. Missionaries came exactly when I needed them. My Heavenly Father sent them to me. HE KNEW when the right moment was.
He gathered me to the house of Israel. Many things that I was looking for many years I found in the Church. I had some specific questions and I found answers.
I will never go back.

P.S. So, Becca, according to the BOM who are the Lamanites (besides that some of them were descendants of Lehi)? I wish you all the best, my sister whom I probably knew long, long time ago. We were on the same side. Not any more.
Before we accept Gospel we are on neutral side. After we reject Gospel we can not be on neutral side.
Second estate. I am grateful for it. I want to keep it.

So you believe based on feelings and subjective experience.

I am glad that your life has veen enriched and blessed by your church membership.

For the Cain subject, the change is that the curse was doctrine and now the church said it was not doctrine.

For Lamanites, I've answered you but you're obviously fishing for something specific. Why don't you just say what you mean?

So you're from Russia? That's interesting. I'm an American in France but I've also lived in a German-speaking country and I spoke some Spanish in high school. Your English is very good.

As far as sisterhood and the second estate, I believe that, if God exists, He honors honesty and does not punish people sicerely searching for the truth and living according to conscience.
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26-05-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
BeccaBoo,

You have a new name. Will you give it to me?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-05-2017, 08:19 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
BeccaBoo: For Lamanites, I've answered you but you're obviously fishing for something specific. Why don't you just say what you mean?

Alla: you have to know this. I will give you a hint. According to the BOM Lamanites are not only the descendant of Lehi.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-05-2017, 08:21 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
BeccaBoo Wrote:For the Cain subject, the change is that the curse was doctrine and now the church said it was not doctrine.
where does it say?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-05-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(26-05-2017 08:17 AM)Alla Wrote:  BeccaBoo,

You have a new name. Will you give it to me?

No.

As a Mormon I did, and if I still believed this would not be the time and place or person to reveal it to.

Now, my name is just BeccaBoo
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26-05-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: The Long, Slow Death of My Homophobia
(26-05-2017 08:42 AM)BeccaBoo Wrote:  
(26-05-2017 08:17 AM)Alla Wrote:  BeccaBoo,

You have a new name. Will you give it to me?

No.

As a Mormon I did, and if I still believed this would not be the time and place or person to reveal it to.

Now, my name is just BeccaBoo
Can this be explained a bit? Have you changed your name or have i completely missed something?

Apologies to Alla, but you're asking a lot of random questions when BeccaBoo doesnt really need to explain herself/keep drudging up memories of being a mormon.

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