The Lord's Prayer
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14-07-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 09:19 AM)mgoering Wrote:  Every Sunday we go through the same drill: "Let us pray as Jesus taught us to pray. 'Our Father who art in heaven...'" Can you guess what church I attend? Hint: It's right after all the kneeling and standing.

All my life I've been trying to understand why it is such an important prayer. (After all, Jesus taught it to us. It's got to be the be-all and end-all of prayers). I've attempted to pick it apart so many times, but can't find anything that amazing. What am I missing? Or is it like the ten commandments: quite unremarkable, once you understand what it all means and put in to context.

Who would like to interpret the Lord's Prayer for me, just for shits and giggles? Big Grin

No prayer of any religion is important. It is simply superstition. Our planet and universe is much older and in 5 billion years our species will have long gone extinct and after our planet and sun dies especially there will be no record of humans and the universe will continue without us.

Humans do it as a placebo, a false comfort, but that is every religion and every prayer worldwide and in our entire species. No, you cannot rid the world of it, but humans do put too much priority on it and not enough priority on things that affect our entire planet. Tribalism is local and most humans adapt the religions and traditions of the societies they are born into.

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14-07-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 12:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When I got married and they said the Lord's Prayer my family was very confused they kept talking but the whole catholic side of the church stared at them.

The Lutherans add an extra line.

Having been to Catholic Masses relatively recently, I can assure you that Catholics also add the extra line ("for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever"), and have been doing so for a while. One of the results of Vatican II is that the Catholic and Lutheran services became more similar to each other. This really pisses off "traditional Catholics" like the Suscipe Domine crowd.

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14-07-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 12:44 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 12:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When I got married and they said the Lord's Prayer my family was very confused they kept talking but the whole catholic side of the church stared at them.

The Lutherans add an extra line.

Having been to Catholic Masses relatively recently, I can assure you that Catholics also add the extra line ("for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever"), and have been doing so for a while. One of the results of Vatican II is that the Catholic and Lutheran services became more similar to each other. This really pisses off "traditional Catholics" like the Suscipe Domine crowd.

Tongue

I've never heard it. Not once at mass and I went a few months ago. Also the line isn't mentioned in the catechism.

One thing I did notice when I was regularly attending mass when the kids were little, during the our father people lifting their arms into the air.

That was never done when I was a kid either. But the church I was going to had a large Asian population (mostly Filipinos), so I kinda chalked it up to that. It could be the church you've attended is trying to appeal to the "others". I don't know.

One thing I did notice was the whole blessing of the person next to you thing, I remember the Lutherans being big on that, say hello to your neighbor in the pew). At the Italian Catholic Church I was attending at the time, it meant a bunch of kissing hello.

Yeah no...just no...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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14-07-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
As others have pointed out the Lord's Prayer is totally hypocritical and shouldn't even be said the way Jesus says it, it's supposed to be an example of speaking from the heart when you pray, and you're supposed to be in your closet doing it quietly instead of a church with a bunch of other people.

I never even understood the point of going to church, why should God care if you get together with other Christians and listen to some guy interpret the Bible has he sees fit? Aren't you supposed to be in a personal relationship with him?

As far as the prayer itself, it's sounds poetic and everything but it does seem contradictory. The one part I don't like is the "your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven." How much control does he really have on Earth? He either has total control or none at all, don't we have free will? If we do I can only assume all other animals have free will and the planet itself goes through natural processes with no outside influences.

So if God has no "will" on Earth but he does have it in Heaven what does that line even mean? He seemed to be going around talking to people up until 2,000 years ago but since then only crazies and con men say they speak to him so his will is really nowhere to be seen. We can't be sure what he's getting his dirty paws on anymore, some people say he protects people in car crashes and also rains natural disasters onto us for allowing gay marriage or whatever, how can we be sure? It's just a dumb line overall.

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14-07-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 01:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 12:44 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Having been to Catholic Masses relatively recently, I can assure you that Catholics also add the extra line ("for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever"), and have been doing so for a while. One of the results of Vatican II is that the Catholic and Lutheran services became more similar to each other. This really pisses off "traditional Catholics" like the Suscipe Domine crowd.

Tongue

I've never heard it. Not once at mass and I went a few months ago. Also the line isn't mentioned in the catechism.

One thing I did notice when I was regularly attending mass when the kids were little, during the our father people lifting their arms into the air.

That was never done when I was a kid either. But the church I was going to had a large Asian population (mostly Filipinos), so I kinda chalked it up to that. It could be the church you've attended is trying to appeal to the "others". I don't know.

One thing I did notice was the whole blessing of the person next to you thing, I remember the Lutherans being big on that, say hello to your neighbor in the pew). At the Italian Catholic Church I was attending at the time, it meant a bunch of kissing hello.

Yeah no...just no...

Hmmm... It wasn't just my church. For a few years, I was going to Sunday Mass regularly (to make my Dad happy), even when I was out of town. So I went to numerous different churches, and they all said that line -- it's even in the Missal. I'm pretty sure it's a standard part of the Mass now. Maybe individual churches have the option not to say it, and yours chose that option. But it's not marked as optional in the Missal -- it's just there.

As for the arm-raising thing, that's pretty common now, too. I heard somewhere that it originated with "charismatic" Catholic groups, whoever and wherever they are. I always thought it was goofy, and made a point of not doing it. It's another thing that drives the Suscipe Domine people nuts. They prefer the old Latin Mass with Gregorian chant, etc. To be honest, if I had to go to Mass, I would prefer that myself. The Mass in English is just goofy and boring. And Gregorian chant is way better than most of the modern hymns.

Something that I just remembered -- the people who hold their arms up during the "Our Father" always raise them even higher during that extra line at the end, which is extra special goofy.

Laugh out load
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14-07-2016, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2016 02:05 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 12:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When I got married and they said the Lord's Prayer my family was very confused they kept talking but the whole catholic side of the church stared at them.

The Lutherans add an extra line.

But yeah, it's just mindlessly, but when I was a kid the Lutherans said debts and debtors, in place of trespasses. I always wondered as a kid, if the reason they changed it was so not to confuse people that you actually must pay your debts or is it just forgive the person(s) who lent you money?

OMG.
I know it in Latin, (from having heard it sung so much).
Pater noster qui est in coelis, santificaetur nomen tuum, adveniat regnum tuum. etc.
Jebus likey that. Big Grin
The whole damn thing. Weeping
How sad is that. Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-07-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 01:17 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 01:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've never heard it. Not once at mass and I went a few months ago. Also the line isn't mentioned in the catechism.

One thing I did notice when I was regularly attending mass when the kids were little, during the our father people lifting their arms into the air.

That was never done when I was a kid either. But the church I was going to had a large Asian population (mostly Filipinos), so I kinda chalked it up to that. It could be the church you've attended is trying to appeal to the "others". I don't know.

One thing I did notice was the whole blessing of the person next to you thing, I remember the Lutherans being big on that, say hello to your neighbor in the pew). At the Italian Catholic Church I was attending at the time, it meant a bunch of kissing hello.

Yeah no...just no...

Hmmm... It wasn't just my church. For a few years, I was going to Sunday Mass regularly (to make my Dad happy), even when I was out of town. So I went to numerous different churches, and they all said that line -- it's even in the Missal. I'm pretty sure it's a standard part of the Mass now. Maybe individual churches have the option not to say it, and yours chose that option. But it's not marked as optional in the Missal -- it's just there.

As for the arm-raising thing, that's pretty common now, too. I heard somewhere that it originated with "charismatic" Catholic groups, whoever and wherever they are. I always thought it was goofy, and made a point of not doing it. It's another thing that drives the Suscipe Domine people nuts. They prefer the old Latin Mass with Gregorian chant, etc. To be honest, if I had to go to Mass, I would prefer that myself. The Mass in English is just goofy and boring. And Gregorian chant is way better than most of the modern hymns.

Something that I just remembered -- the people who hold their arms up during the "Our Father" always raise them even higher during that extra line at the end, which is extra special goofy.

Laugh out load

I don't know. The churches here don't. I've been to several -- they all do mass in a similar way.

I went to a mass down in the SF Bay Area fairly recently too (last year), a friend's child was confirmed and it wasn't said there. It also wasn't said when we attended mass (accidentally) at one of the missions a few years before that. Totally showed up at the wrong fucking time. Facepalm

My man and his mom have to fly down there to attend a family thing in August, I'm sure they'll be attending mass while there.

I agree on the raising hands during the our father. But like I said I've only witnessed people doing it with Asian influences -- the charismatic bit totally makes sense tho, I believe that group did a lot missionary work too.

I'll admit I enjoy the Latin mass far more than the regular one...

I did think of one thing...I do tend (unless I absolutely must) tend to do the Saturday evening mass or the early Sunday mass, because it's far shorter than the 90 minute one at 9:30 or 10. Smile

I don't know if that matters.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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14-07-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 01:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 01:17 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Hmmm... It wasn't just my church. For a few years, I was going to Sunday Mass regularly (to make my Dad happy), even when I was out of town. So I went to numerous different churches, and they all said that line -- it's even in the Missal. I'm pretty sure it's a standard part of the Mass now. Maybe individual churches have the option not to say it, and yours chose that option. But it's not marked as optional in the Missal -- it's just there.

As for the arm-raising thing, that's pretty common now, too. I heard somewhere that it originated with "charismatic" Catholic groups, whoever and wherever they are. I always thought it was goofy, and made a point of not doing it. It's another thing that drives the Suscipe Domine people nuts. They prefer the old Latin Mass with Gregorian chant, etc. To be honest, if I had to go to Mass, I would prefer that myself. The Mass in English is just goofy and boring. And Gregorian chant is way better than most of the modern hymns.

Something that I just remembered -- the people who hold their arms up during the "Our Father" always raise them even higher during that extra line at the end, which is extra special goofy.

Laugh out load

I don't know. The churches here don't. I've been to several -- they all do mass in a similar way.

I went to a mass down in the SF Bay Area fairly recently too (last year), a friend's child was confirmed and it wasn't said there. It also wasn't said when we attended mass (accidentally) at one of the missions a few years before that. Totally showed up at the wrong fucking time. Facepalm

My man and his mom have to fly down there to attend a family thing in August, I'm sure they'll be attending mass while there.

I agree on the raising hands during the our father. But like I said I've only witnessed people doing it with Asian influences -- the charismatic bit totally makes sense tho, I believe that group did a lot missionary work too.

I'll admit I enjoy the Latin mass far more than the regular one...

I did think of one thing...I do tend (unless I absolutely must) tend to do the Saturday evening mass or the early Sunday mass, because it's far shorter than the 90 minute one at 9:30 or 10. Smile

I don't know if that matters.

Maybe it's a West coast thing. I'm in Wisconsin. I've been to all the Masses here (Saturday night, and all 3 of the Sunday ones), and they all do the extra line and the arm-raising -- I would say about 90% of the people in the church do that. Here, the Saturday night is the most hippy-dippy one of all. That one is the most likely to have guitars, modern hymns, weird behavior like arm-raising, etc. The most "traditional" is the early Sunday morning one, and that's the one I usually went to. But even there, most of the people did the arm-raising, and we said the extra line in the Our Father. Weird.

Anyway, the one positive outcome of my Dad dying a few years back is that I was able to stop going to Mass and not worry about disappointing anyone (except people that I don't care about). I haven't been inside a church for over a year now, and I don't miss it at all.
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14-07-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: The Lord's Prayer
(14-07-2016 02:12 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 01:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't know. The churches here don't. I've been to several -- they all do mass in a similar way.

I went to a mass down in the SF Bay Area fairly recently too (last year), a friend's child was confirmed and it wasn't said there. It also wasn't said when we attended mass (accidentally) at one of the missions a few years before that. Totally showed up at the wrong fucking time. Facepalm

My man and his mom have to fly down there to attend a family thing in August, I'm sure they'll be attending mass while there.

I agree on the raising hands during the our father. But like I said I've only witnessed people doing it with Asian influences -- the charismatic bit totally makes sense tho, I believe that group did a lot missionary work too.

I'll admit I enjoy the Latin mass far more than the regular one...

I did think of one thing...I do tend (unless I absolutely must) tend to do the Saturday evening mass or the early Sunday mass, because it's far shorter than the 90 minute one at 9:30 or 10. Smile

I don't know if that matters.

Maybe it's a West coast thing. I'm in Wisconsin. I've been to all the Masses here (Saturday night, and all 3 of the Sunday ones), and they all do the extra line and the arm-raising -- I would say about 90% of the people in the church do that. Here, the Saturday night is the most hippy-dippy one of all. That one is the most likely to have guitars, modern hymns, weird behavior like arm-raising, etc. The most "traditional" is the early Sunday morning one, and that's the one I usually went to. But even there, most of the people did the arm-raising, and we said the extra line in the Our Father. Weird.

Anyway, the one positive outcome of my Dad dying a few years back is that I was able to stop going to Mass and not worry about disappointing anyone (except people that I don't care about). I haven't been inside a church for over a year now, and I don't miss it at all.

That is weird. It could very well be an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. Most of the Lutherans I knew (like my grandmothers family) were all originally from North Dakota, Minnesota, and a few from Wisconsin. It could honestly be geographic. I don't know.

I wish I could avoid it...my man tends to run hot and cold with agnosticism.

Meh..whatever.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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14-07-2016, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2016 02:51 PM by Anjele.)
RE: The Lord's Prayer
Since I grew up as a Catholic and was around almost all Catholics, the free form prayer that I heard when I moved to SC was a little weird to me. I was so used to the word-for-word recitation of prayers that the idea of winging it was completely foreign to my ears.

Lots of 'Father Gods' thrown into every one of those prayers I noticed.

Blessings over meals became long, drawn out speeches about nourishing our bodies so that we could do God's work...what the heck is that all about? I grew up with - Bless us oh Lord and these thy gifts, which we are about to receive. From thy bounty, through Christ our Lord. Amen.

The first time I had to sit through a five minute pre-meal blessing I was stunned.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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