The Lucid Spiritual Plane
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07-05-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 01:22 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(07-05-2013 11:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, so, how do we know that our "universe" is not, let's say the stomach of some larger being? That we are like bacteria in there, killing off lesser bacteria and each other, the flora and fungus and eventually we will kill the host by annihilating all that is supposed to grow in that stomach?

There are for instance flies that live only for one day. Does not an entire lifetime of experience fit into that time span for them? Who says our perception of time or space is any more accurate?

We are explorers, and so now we have started exploring the universe, but what exactly this universe is, we have no idea. It could be any given part of any larger thing or being. We can only perceive what we can perceive.

I have thought those ideas before and they fit in with my ideal that we are a part of something bigger, I do not attach myself to these beliefs because there is not enough facts to back them up as of yet so it falls into the category of "faith".

The only "faith" I apply is to myself. Cool

Not at all saying I believe those things. They are just one of thousands of possibilities. We don't know how limited we are in our perception. So we can't even venture to guess what there is and how we fit in.

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07-05-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
George Carlin: The Big Electron.

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07-05-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(06-05-2013 10:26 PM)Egor Wrote:  Did you buy and read my book, Caretakers of Eternity?

I did, I liked it, I think you *should* write more. These ideas are creative and perfect for a novel IMO. But... *truth* as in applicable to external reality... doesn't ring true for me.

Also... if you are actually doing marketing... we're like the least likely market right at the moment. I mean... you could maybe sell one or two copies... CoE was cheap and I like that kinda novel sometimes so no worries, but I thought at the time I was probably one of very very few. When you had your novel review website up, and it was really well worked and interesting, I think in time that could have changed into a real business... but you dismantled it when you went back to being Egor the Grim and destroyed quite a lot of the currency of good will that you had been generating for yourself on many of the forums you frequented... that stuff takes time to rebuild.
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07-05-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
Dualism. Meh. No evidence.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-05-2013, 06:38 PM
 
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 09:48 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have only one belief and that is I am part of the universe, so in some regards I am a loose panthiest (loose because I don't believe that the universe is "God")

Got it.

Quote:I have certain ideas but I try not to attach to them too much if I can help it. However over time I have come up with my own views that to me sound quite logical and I will share them now.

Science says there was big bang, some sort of central point where everything came from. To me as a human being I witness things come and go, things are created and then they decay, they are born and they die. I have a certain perception of time. So just because I know of these to me doesn't actually mean that the universe actually had to have a start... it may simply have been here for eternity and being a creature with a limited lifespan I have no perception of eternity. So I don't actually believe there is anything that could be deemed as a "beginning"... sure you can make a waypoint/checkpoint/point of reference, but not a starting point.

The universe was here way before this planet even existed. Our existence from evolution is merely a speck in the scale of eternity. So now as humankind we say what is "wrong" and "right" yet what was the definition of these two things before this planet existed, before human beings were even around as single cell organisms??? That is why I don't believe in an absolute "wrong or right", the answer to these is merely in the eye of the beholder and even these things are not static as history has proven (Things are more accepted/frowned upon now than throughout the past... society is ever changing and society shapes us)

"Right and wrong" is a creation from us to describe an ideal, it is not a creation of the universe (which has been here long before us). So therefore I don't believe in "Judgement" as that is also a creation of ours which is merely a circumstance/consequence from our ideals of "right and wrong"

As a human being I am biased to this experience in this form. So any religion can be only based upon these experiences... there can be no "other". Seeing as how we have such an impact on this planet by the things we do, because of how we have evolved and because of our bias of not knowing anything else. Humankind has sort of seen itself as "controlling" the world and put us as the pinnacle of creation in religion when this (on the grand scale of things) is not the case. Like I have previously mentioned the universe and everything within it was here before we were, we are merely a consequence of a certain sequence of events.

So whilst many see humans as having some sort of purpose to evolve spiritually, I kind of see that as short sighted as we share this universe with everything else. Animals, plants, planets, solar systems, galaxies, germs... which leads me to think that what is their purpose? Are they simply here just for us? In my "third person/bigger picture" view I cannot accept this as the case. We share the universe, it doesn't revolve around us..... it just revolves.

For my own personal spirituality whilst I enjoy consciously mulling over these questions when I have meditated and gone within myself. I quiet all thoughts.

I simply am... part of one/everything/the universe... I simply exist... its simplicity is breathtaking and cannot be explained.

Cool

Well, I read every word you wrote, and it does sound like you have mystical experiences. Do you think the mind ends when your body dies? The reason I ask is because you said that when you meditate you feel yourself become one/everything/the universe, and that you simply exist. That kind of insight doesn't seem possible from a purely emergent consciousness. [/quote]
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07-05-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 09:48 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have only one belief and that is I am part of the universe, so in some regards I am a loose panthiest (loose because I don't believe that the universe is "God")

I have certain ideas but I try not to attach to them too much if I can help it. However over time I have come up with my own views that to me sound quite logical and I will share them now.

Science says there was big bang, some sort of central point where everything came from. To me as a human being I witness things come and go, things are created and then they decay, they are born and they die. I have a certain perception of time. So just because I know of these to me doesn't actually mean that the universe actually had to have a start... it may simply have been here for eternity and being a creature with a limited lifespan I have no perception of eternity. So I don't actually believe there is anything that could be deemed as a "beginning"... sure you can make a waypoint/checkpoint/point of reference, but not a starting point.

The universe was here way before this planet even existed. Our existence from evolution is merely a speck in the scale of eternity. So now as humankind we say what is "wrong" and "right" yet what was the definition of these two things before this planet existed, before human beings were even around as single cell organisms??? That is why I don't believe in an absolute "wrong or right", the answer to these is merely in the eye of the beholder and even these things are not static as history has proven (Things are more accepted/frowned upon now than throughout the past... society is ever changing and society shapes us)

"Right and wrong" is a creation from us to describe an ideal, it is not a creation of the universe (which has been here long before us). So therefore I don't believe in "Judgement" as that is also a creation of ours which is merely a circumstance/consequence from our ideals of "right and wrong"

As a human being I am biased to this experience in this form. So any religion can be only based upon these experiences... there can be no "other". Seeing as how we have such an impact on this planet by the things we do, because of how we have evolved and because of our bias of not knowing anything else. Humankind has sort of seen itself as "controlling" the world and put us as the pinnacle of creation in religion when this (on the grand scale of things) is not the case. Like I have previously mentioned the universe and everything within it was here before we were, we are merely a consequence of a certain sequence of events.

So whilst many see humans as having some sort of purpose to evolve spiritually, I kind of see that as short sighted as we share this universe with everything else. Animals, plants, planets, solar systems, galaxies, germs... which leads me to think that what is their purpose? Are they simply here just for us? In my "third person/bigger picture" view I cannot accept this as the case. We share the universe, it doesn't revolve around us..... it just revolves.

For my own personal spirituality whilst I enjoy consciously mulling over these questions when I have meditated and gone within myself. I quiet all thoughts.

I simply am... part of one/everything/the universe... I simply exist... its simplicity is breathtaking and cannot be explained.

Cool

You had me all the way up to the moral relativism bit. But I have to ask before I go on... what do you mean by absolute right and wrong?

Is that with respect to the universe/multiverse and that which humans can't conceive or just humanity?

I can't help but think it's the latter, given that you eluded to the fact that if we are indeed brains in a tank or farts in the winds of time.... we can't know it.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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07-05-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 06:38 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(07-05-2013 09:48 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have only one belief and that is I am part of the universe, so in some regards I am a loose panthiest (loose because I don't believe that the universe is "God")

Got it.

Quote:I have certain ideas but I try not to attach to them too much if I can help it. However over time I have come up with my own views that to me sound quite logical and I will share them now.

Science says there was big bang, some sort of central point where everything came from. To me as a human being I witness things come and go, things are created and then they decay, they are born and they die. I have a certain perception of time. So just because I know of these to me doesn't actually mean that the universe actually had to have a start... it may simply have been here for eternity and being a creature with a limited lifespan I have no perception of eternity. So I don't actually believe there is anything that could be deemed as a "beginning"... sure you can make a waypoint/checkpoint/point of reference, but not a starting point.

The universe was here way before this planet even existed. Our existence from evolution is merely a speck in the scale of eternity. So now as humankind we say what is "wrong" and "right" yet what was the definition of these two things before this planet existed, before human beings were even around as single cell organisms??? That is why I don't believe in an absolute "wrong or right", the answer to these is merely in the eye of the beholder and even these things are not static as history has proven (Things are more accepted/frowned upon now than throughout the past... society is ever changing and society shapes us)

"Right and wrong" is a creation from us to describe an ideal, it is not a creation of the universe (which has been here long before us). So therefore I don't believe in "Judgement" as that is also a creation of ours which is merely a circumstance/consequence from our ideals of "right and wrong"

As a human being I am biased to this experience in this form. So any religion can be only based upon these experiences... there can be no "other". Seeing as how we have such an impact on this planet by the things we do, because of how we have evolved and because of our bias of not knowing anything else. Humankind has sort of seen itself as "controlling" the world and put us as the pinnacle of creation in religion when this (on the grand scale of things) is not the case. Like I have previously mentioned the universe and everything within it was here before we were, we are merely a consequence of a certain sequence of events.

So whilst many see humans as having some sort of purpose to evolve spiritually, I kind of see that as short sighted as we share this universe with everything else. Animals, plants, planets, solar systems, galaxies, germs... which leads me to think that what is their purpose? Are they simply here just for us? In my "third person/bigger picture" view I cannot accept this as the case. We share the universe, it doesn't revolve around us..... it just revolves.

For my own personal spirituality whilst I enjoy consciously mulling over these questions when I have meditated and gone within myself. I quiet all thoughts.

I simply am... part of one/everything/the universe... I simply exist... its simplicity is breathtaking and cannot be explained.

Cool

Well, I read every word you wrote, and it does sound like you have mystical experiences. Do you think the mind ends when your body dies? The reason I ask is because you said that when you meditate you feel yourself become one/everything/the universe, and that you simply exist. That kind of insight doesn't seem possible from a purely emergent consciousness.
[/quote]

Well there seems to be a certain few people who do believe that there is life after death and who are trying to discover with a scientific method (the AWARE study) if this is the case. You might want to check out this website....

http://horizonresearch.org/

... to summaries what I have learned through listening to DR Sam Parnia is it seems that many people, no matter what background, ethnicity, religion (or not) adult or child have had similar experiences.

In this experience they review their life but they feel what other people feel who have been in their life... Eg - If you hurt somebody emotionally then you will experience what that pain felt like yourself. People who die naturally experience things differently to those who decide to take their own life.

Seeing as your interested in Dreaming you might want to look into DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) which is a substance found in nearly all sorts of "life" and is naturally occuring when we dream, dubbed by many as the "spirit molecule". It is described as a "hallucinogenic" (lol) when taken and can be either smoked or drank in a brew that goes by many names however if you look up "Ayahauasca" you will find a lot of info. One of my best links to this drink is here....

http://andygreek1.forumchitchat.com/post...fo-6284793

.... and one day I would like to travel to Peru and to take part in a ceremony and to drink it, I have been tempted to source the ingredients myself and to make it at home however I would prefer to do it properly with people who have passed down the knowledge over many years.

The only thing I can mention about dreaming is I do in some sense think it has something to do with our subconscious. I used to have an irrational fear of heights, nothing paralyzing however in high up situations I just wanted to be on terra-firma which would involve me jumping off, totally irrational behaviour and obv I wouldn't jump. I had been looking into dreaming for a while and what different definitions of how dreams could be seen and I remember clearly a lot of dreams involving falling. It was said that if people hit the ground in dreams then they would die in real life (another lol) as I have had dreams where I have jumped off high places and hit the ground but it never hurt and in the dreams I just did it again and again. I have found that the irrational fear and feelings I have had before those dreams are not as bad as they used to be now.

I also go to the same places in my dreams. The settings are the same but the situations and things in them can be different. One thing that stands out to me most and is the most weird is I remember when I was a child I had a dream where I was at a seasideish town. There was houses on a hill and a lot of red double decker buses going through the streets. As I walked down one street in particular I noticed a man (who then seemed familiar) watching me walk from the upper window of a house. He waved at me and I just ignored him and carried on walking. A few years ago (maybe ten at most) I had another dream where I was in a house and even though I knew I had never been there I knew what the next room had in it before I entered it. I went upstairs and looked out of the window and saw the seaside town from my dream years ago and I observed myself as a child walking past. I waved but like me before (as a child) simply continued walking.... very very strange indeed but also very fascinating.

If im honest I wouldn't classify my experiences as "mystical". I think thoughts are one thing but feelings are another thing entirely. Its the feelings that I think drive our existence yet how do you put sufficiently into words the sense of feeling?

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-05-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 08:49 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  You had me all the way up to the moral relativism bit. But I have to ask before I go on... what do you mean by absolute right and wrong?

Is that with respect to the universe/multiverse and that which humans can't conceive or just humanity?

I can't help but think it's the latter, given that you eluded to the fact that if we are indeed brains in a tank or farts in the winds of time.... we can't know it.

I think you can use any word. You can replace right or wrong with "truth" and I think the same rules can apply. It is us who give our own meanings to things, even our very own existence.

I dont know how else to say it. There is simply no right or wrong in my eyes. Certainly I have moral beliefs but they dont come into play when I try to use my "third person/bigger picture" way of looking at things

Absolute right and wrong is a concept that we (as humans) have come up with. I think that any impact we have (as humans) is our creation and we are nothing but a infinitely small part of the infinitely massive universe.

I also believe that yes, we could be brains in a tank or farts in a wind in time and we wouldn't know it. We are biased by this experience to that say of a dog, or a microbe. A dog wouldnt know what it is like to be a human the same as we wouldnt know what it was like to be a dog and this planet is full of different life (and I guess maybe the rest of the universe)

Life is in the eye of the beholder.

The universe has a mechanism of simplicty, it works, it is us who make it complicated with thoughts Cool

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-05-2013, 09:20 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(07-05-2013 09:15 PM)bemore Wrote:  The universe has a mechanism of simplicty, it works, it is us who make it complicated with thoughts Cool

I would rephrase that as "The universe is, and we are trying to understand it" Wink

"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.” ~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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08-05-2013, 01:33 AM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
I had a dream last night Egor, it involved honey chicken from noodle canteen.
Does that mean I just eat way too much honey chicken from noodle canteen or does that mean that honey chicken from noodle canteen is god??

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