The Lucid Spiritual Plane
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19-05-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 01:18 PM)amyb Wrote:  Again, I haven't read Luminon's post (yet), but if all he said was he thinks "intellect>emotion," I'd agree with him. That doesn't mean I think he's right when you're looking at the bigger picture though, I think emotions have played a large role in the species. Even though I'm a sociopath, and I can still recognize that other people have social bonds and that's what keeps the species going, and also is important since humans are social creatures.
Yup, all I'm saying, intellect is more advanced than emotions - and it usually develops later than emotions and in fewer people. It is good to have lots of both, but intellect should rule the emotions - not stifle them, but guide them.

(19-05-2013 01:18 PM)amyb Wrote:  Here is a problematic part of what Luminon said, I think. He is assuming that successful women are "men." The only way there can be a problem with women assuming traditionally male jobs and roles in society is if you think that women are basically a different species; inherently different. Just because you might have trouble talking to females of the species doesn't mean you're right in assuming the problem is women, rather than with yourself.

Also, I have no idea what this thread is about.
Nevermind, the owner isn't coming back, he said Smile I don't know how different women are, but I see a difference. Can't tell how much of that is cultural conditioning and how much neurology. But I am sure the culture we have is mostly male.

Btw, I don't have problem talking to women, if I know what to talk about. Mind-blindness, that's how experts call it. My senses are lying to me that other people are just boring skin bags (some are pretty skin bags), unless they say something interesting. Then I can see for a moment that there's someone inside and thinking. It's a disability of the brain parts that directly read people, their social signals, intentions, expectations, feelings and most of what's interesting about people. And just by describing that I already sound arrogant, that's another problem with mind-blindness.
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19-05-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 02:18 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Yup, all I'm saying, intellect is more advanced than emotions - and it usually develops later than emotions and in fewer people. It is good to have lots of both, but intellect should rule the emotions - not stifle them, but guide them.
Ok, in that case, i agree.

Quote:Nevermind, the owner isn't coming back, he said Smile I don't know how different women are, but I see a difference. Can't tell how much of that is cultural conditioning and how much neurology. But I am sure the culture we have is mostly male.

Btw, I don't have problem talking to women, if I know what to talk about. Mind-blindness, that's how experts call it. My senses are lying to me that other people are just boring skin bags (some are pretty skin bags), unless they say something interesting. Then I can see for a moment that there's someone inside and thinking. It's a disability of the brain parts that directly read people, their social signals, intentions, expectations, feelings and most of what's interesting about people. And just by describing that I already sound arrogant, that's another problem with mind-blindness.
You see a difference because males and females are brought up different. There are definitely different things culturally encoded as "masculine" and "feminine." A little boy is given toy trucks and told he's a pansy if he cries about something. Little girls are encouraged to be emotional and wimpy, and told they are tomboys or called dykes if they do anything culturally-coded as "masculine." I think the book Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine does a good job of explaining how these are formed and then reinforced throughout a lifetime, to the extent that many people consider them to be innate rather than learned. (If they were innate, then there would be no explanation for societies with reversed gender roles, which do exist.)

I'm pretty sure most people ARE boring skinbags though, but that might be my mental illnesses talking.
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19-05-2013, 03:06 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2013 03:12 PM by Luminon.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 02:35 PM)amyb Wrote:  You see a difference because males and females are brought up different. There are definitely different things culturally encoded as "masculine" and "feminine." A little boy is given toy trucks and told he's a pansy if he cries about something. Little girls are encouraged to be emotional and wimpy, and told they are tomboys or called dykes if they do anything culturally-coded as "masculine." I think the book Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine does a good job of explaining how these are formed and then reinforced throughout a lifetime, to the extent that many people consider them to be innate rather than learned. (If they were innate, then there would be no explanation for societies with reversed gender roles, which do exist.)
I hope this is so. I like lots of softer sci-fi that explores the gender and social roles, such as an utopian society where women are perfectly equal.
But there are other interesting things - more testosteron may cause more interest in systems and more problem-solving and single focus abilities, which is more frequent in men. I'd say this is epigenetics - women more stressed during pregnancy have more testosteron and the resulting child is less wired socially but more technically. And most of them are men, obviously.

(19-05-2013 02:35 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm pretty sure most people ARE boring skinbags though, but that might be my mental illnesses talking.
I think so too. Normal healthy people would be all WTF what are we talking about, intellectual snob bores.
Other people seem to have so much fun together. They think being alone is boring. I can understand a little, because on some rare occasions I get very drunk and then they're all very interesting and fun people. And even if they aren't, being drunk is interesting enough to pass time. So I can vaguely imagine how are they feeling and what I'm missing.
I'm pretty sure my right brain hemisphere is weaker and the left one dominates all my sober thinking. And the left hemisphere is not interested in people and alcohol but in systems. I'd love to have fun with both halves of my brain, but people just aren't readable to me, unless I know them very well. And unreadability means boredom.
Hey, this is terrible. I don't like to think about it, but it is. I'm not sure I can tell that to anybody I know.
It's like living in my personal totalitarian regime led by the General Left Hemisphere, who only allows to have fun with systems, not with people. I'm so used to the regime, so I don't realize it. Only when drunk I get to feel the social and spontaneous impulses that the General usually censores. And the freedom is unbelievable. It's like getting a family letter in jail after 5 years. Too bad the General doesn't like me drinking either.
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19-05-2013, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2013 03:36 PM by amyb.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
Yes, hormones can affect a person greatly. I haven't read much on it affecting the fetus during pregnancy, but it's certainly easy to see in the case of some hormonal medications. More testosterone can also make a person more interested in sex, leading to the stereotype than men ONLY think about sex. This is a topic I think about a lot because I have no emotions, pretty much, and people are always expecting me to live up to their "feminine" stereotypes and I fail miserably at that, then I have to explain that I am not an emotional person, that I have no maternal instinct, etc. An inability to conform to gender roles has made me want to learn as much as I can about them (by way of books, university courses, etc.). A lot of people also would mention things like PMS. I have never experienced this personally, but I have observed some women become more emotional due to hormonal fluctuations due to menstruation and pregnancy. I imagine this is part of the reason people associate emotion stuff with women. But I do think most of it is a type of childhood gender indoctrination.

There have also been studies about things like problem solving that say the opposite of what you said, and ones that seem to show that women are conditioned to think they are worse in math and problem solving, and do remarkably worse on tests when first told there is a large gender gap in the scores. When men or women are told their sex does poorly in a thing, they tend to do poorly in that thing, and vice versa.

I am not saying men and women are the same thing, I am saying they are capable of doing the same things, have the same capacity for thought, and so on, but they may be limited due to societal gender roles. The main differences in men and women, I'd say, are primary and secondary sex characteristics, gender dimorphism, body hair, fat % and distribution, etc.

Another book that addressed this was 'extreme metal' by Keith Kahn Harris. It was a sociological study of people who listen to certain types of metal, and suggested reasons why women and minorities are under-represented, but that mostly came down to what is accepted by society and what is not.

As for readability: I think I have the opposite problem. I feel like it's obvious what's going on in their heads, and what's going on in their heads is completely boring, meaningless bullshit (my definition of this is arbitrary, of course). Many people seem mostly interested in gossiping and procreating, and showing photos of their children, and completely uninterested in anything that involves thinking. I think it's because thinking doesn't have all that much value evolutionarily; society tends to favor those who conform to the group and don't question it.

It was my understanding that the "left brain/right brain" thing was a myth; but certainly, people think differently and value different things (such as logic). There are some functional asymmetries but I have read that most behavior and functions are processed in both hemispheres.

Quote:I don't know how different women are, but I see a difference.
It's people with this sort of attitude that had me convinced for many years that I must be FTM transgender. And I'm not, I just don't match this "difference" that people say they see. I think perpetuating gender myths potentially causes a lot of harm.
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19-05-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
If I had a plane, it would definitely not be called the Lucid. That is all. Drinking Beverage
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19-05-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(09-05-2013 11:03 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 04:07 PM)bemore Wrote:  I don't wish to divulge all that personal information at this time.


Fixed.

Do only humans experience this Spiritual Plane or does anything else? What wouldnt experience this?

Well, if you're asking me to speculate, which is all I can do about this, I think just as physical life evolves into a perfect equalibrium with its environment, spiritual life does as well. I personally think we all started out as prions then reincarnated into viruses, then bacteria, then protozoa, then plants, then simpler animals, then herbavours, then carnivours, then omnivours, and then humans (and I won't comment on which humans are the most evolved). When we stop reincarnating as humans, then we develop our lucid spiritual planes, when we have reached the fruition of those we go on to be with the Divine Source, I believe as spirit guides, and then eventually there is no distinction between us and the Divine Source.

Our souls are probably as old as the universe, itself.

That's what I think. So...go ahead...[Image: 0221c%20(1).gif]


Woo source.

http://www.truthcontest.com/

It's a long boring read all about nonsense. I was really bored one night. Saw this post, recognized the nonsense.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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19-05-2013, 03:48 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
AmyB, hormones influence everything enormously.

And you know what comes to mind when you describe yourself? A post-menopausal woman.

Personally, I think that is the better way to be, life becomes much simpler without all that hormonal interference. Wild hormones keep throwing a wrench into things.

But if you feel like trying what the other side is like, try taking some wild yam extract on a regular basis. It contains natural estrogen...

That is if I am not totally off target, which may well be since I am trying to read between the lines here.

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19-05-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 03:48 PM)Dom Wrote:  AmyB, hormones influence everything enormously.

And you know what comes to mind when you describe yourself? A post-menopausal woman.

Personally, I think that is the better way to be, life becomes much simpler without all that hormonal interference. Wild hormones keep throwing a wrench into things.

But if you feel like trying what the other side is like, try taking some wild yam extract on a regular basis. It contains natural estrogen...

That is if I am not totally off target, which may well be since I am trying to read between the lines here.
Yes, I know. I've been on hormonal medications for the past 7 years, to the extent that it's caused me to have adrenal insufficiency and bouts of psychosis.

But hormonal fluctuations are not the same thing as "all men are horndogs and all women are emotional nutjobs." I do believe it has been said in the thread that women are less capable of intelligent thought, and that's what I disagree with.

Even when I still menstruated I never had PMS or anything, though. I'll think I'll pass on the wild yam, I have no real desire to feel more feminine. I actually considered myself a bit of a misogynist for a long time, because I hated the way people treated me differently because I am perceived as female.
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19-05-2013, 04:28 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 03:59 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(19-05-2013 03:48 PM)Dom Wrote:  AmyB, hormones influence everything enormously.

And you know what comes to mind when you describe yourself? A post-menopausal woman.

Personally, I think that is the better way to be, life becomes much simpler without all that hormonal interference. Wild hormones keep throwing a wrench into things.

But if you feel like trying what the other side is like, try taking some wild yam extract on a regular basis. It contains natural estrogen...

That is if I am not totally off target, which may well be since I am trying to read between the lines here.
Yes, I know. I've been on hormonal medications for the past 7 years, to the extent that it's caused me to have adrenal insufficiency and bouts of psychosis.

But hormonal fluctuations are not the same thing as "all men are horndogs and all women are emotional nutjobs." I do believe it has been said in the thread that women are less capable of intelligent thought, and that's what I disagree with.

Even when I still menstruated I never had PMS or anything, though. I'll think I'll pass on the wild yam, I have no real desire to feel more feminine. I actually considered myself a bit of a misogynist for a long time, because I hated the way people treated me differently because I am perceived as female.

Well, as far as hormonal influences go, males are supposed to be wanting quantity of offspring (therefore easily aroused just by looking at any woman), and women are supposed to want one strong male who will stay around and help raise the offspring (hence aroused by cuddling, affection and prolonged foreplay).

Of course all of this is not really valid in the age of over 50% divorcing, overpopulation etc. There does seem to be some societal evolution towards same sex couples, asexuality and childlessness. And that would mean human bodies would adapt with less hormonal flow.

However that may be, I never had PMS either. I also have no ticking clock. But I have always delighted in being female, I found it to be a great advantage in business, especially when dealing with males who underestimate me. It's great when competitors underestimate you. Tongue

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19-05-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
I don't see what any of that has to do with whether or not women are capable of intelligent thought, though.

Quote: It's great when competitors underestimate you.
Truth!

What I was responding to:

Nach in Wrote:Remember that men are (or were, depending on where you are) considered intellectual and women emotional, and thus, intellect is considered superior to emotion, like a thing for animals and not humans (male humans)

Luminon Wrote:As for emotionality and intellect in actual women... I am socially blind and not in touch with society, much less women, so don't take me seriously. I think if I was a sexistic pig, it would be actually an improvement of my social life. From what I've seen, many guys enjoy using their brains, but I regret to say, save for one or two exceptions I've never had an interesting discussion with a girl of my age. There
^I took all that to mean that women are too busy being emotional to have an intelligent thought. That is what I took issue with.

Yes, many studies have been done on how hormones and social behaviors influence reproduction, but I think that's beside the point (that women are capable of intelligent thought, despite stereotypes to the contrary).
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