The Lucid Spiritual Plane
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19-05-2013, 05:24 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 03:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  There have also been studies about things like problem solving that say the opposite of what you said, and ones that seem to show that women are conditioned to think they are worse in math and problem solving, and do remarkably worse on tests when first told there is a large gender gap in the scores. When men or women are told their sex does poorly in a thing, they tend to do poorly in that thing, and vice versa.
The truth is, before the invention of computers, women worked solving equations in big halls because it turned out they make fewer errors than men. However, I haven't seen many female mathematicians, inventing new solutions to mathematical problems. The difference is not explainable by social conditioning alone.

I intend to study a social science program and there are mostly women as students. I'd love to find a gal there, if we had common interests and intellectual attraction, if there ever is such a thing Tongue

(19-05-2013 03:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  As for readability: I think I have the opposite problem. I feel like it's obvious what's going on in their heads, and what's going on in their heads is completely boring, meaningless bullshit (my definition of this is arbitrary, of course). Many people seem mostly interested in gossiping and procreating, and showing photos of their children, and completely uninterested in anything that involves thinking. I think it's because thinking doesn't have all that much value evolutionarily; society tends to favor those who conform to the group and don't question it.
Yes, that is a different problem. You probably can't read people, but there is supposed to be a mechanism in brain that gives you the same emotions as you see in people around. So you see people having fun, and think, F, U, N, just three letters, what's so entertaining about it? Wink
Yes, imagine the cascades of mirror neurons, social bonding and imagination centers and pleasure hormones just firing off in female brain at the sight of a photograph of a drooling human larva.
It's a similar effect as when HoC looks at his Gwynnies, or when I look at a photograph of a red fox (a very cute animal, IMO). I get probably the same social reaction, just wired differently.

(19-05-2013 03:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  It was my understanding that the "left brain/right brain" thing was a myth; but certainly, people think differently and value different things (such as logic). There are some functional asymmetries but I have read that most behavior and functions are processed in both hemispheres.
Yes, in healthy people certainly. I think the reason why my left brain hemisphere is so dominant, is because it took on a lot of extra duties and has its own opinion on how to do them.

(19-05-2013 03:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  It's people with this sort of attitude that had me convinced for many years that I must be FTM transgender. And I'm not, I just don't match this "difference" that people say they see. I think perpetuating gender myths potentially causes a lot of harm.
Well, the difference I saw... I don't know many people, but obviously I spent almost 20 years in all kinds of schools. (and more to go, I hope) And what I noticed, girls "always" do their homework, in top quality too, but "never" anything on top of that. While guys often don't do their homework, but often it's something that interests them and so it's a bigger project than expected.
I might be a little projecting on guys here. But at the community college we had a girl in class who was a treasure, she had all her notes in perfect order and shared them on e-mail, half of class graduated thanks to her. But I've never seen her say anything intellectual, original or personally meaningful. She had her fun from doing and organizing an amateur theater which is rather cool, actually. But I totally couldn't divide work life and fun life like that. I have to work with my brain and have fun with my brain at the same time, or I get dangerously depressed. It's too many eggs of life in one intellectual basket.
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19-05-2013, 05:43 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
Quote:The truth is, before the invention of computers, women worked solving equations in big halls because it turned out they make fewer errors than men. However, I haven't seen many female mathematicians, inventing new solutions to mathematical problems. The difference is not explainable by social conditioning alone.
It is explainable by social conditioning, if you wanted to explain it that way. Women are told they're shitty at math, so they believe it, and they are discouraged from pursuing math.

Not doing something is not the same as being unable to do something.

There was a quote from David Lee Roth in an old book I read, he said the same thing about women playing lead guitar: women are told not to be rock stars, he said. They're discouraged from the guitar and told to play piano instead, since that's more acceptable for girls. Likewise, you don't see as many heterosexual male fashion designers because it's culturally coded as something women and gay men do. I think you are vastly underestimating the power of the desire to belong and fit in as it relates to most people. (As an "aspie smartass," it is also possible that you just don't feel that personally, and assume others are not bound by it, either.)

Quote:Yes, that is a different problem. You probably can't read people, but there is supposed to be a mechanism in brain that gives you the same emotions as you see in people around. So you see people having fun, and think, F, U, N, just three letters, what's so entertaining about it? Wink
Yes, imagine the cascades of mirror neurons, social bonding and imagination centers and pleasure hormones just firing off in female brain at the sight of a photograph of a drooling human larva.
Haha, one of my best friends calls them human larvae, too. But yeah, I think I lack that, but then, I'm not too torn up about it. "Fun" seems like such a waste of time to me. I completely lack the ability to mirror people, though, yeah.

Men release vasopressin at the sight of infants, IIRC, and that makes them less horny, so they don't want to screw their partner who just had a baby as much (useful, because she's probably torn up and sore). Also oxytocin for bonding with the baby. It's not that babies are cute, it's that hormones cause these feelings in most people. It's useful for the species, I suppose, though I think it's too prevalent, there are too many babies being born, IMO, because people don't think rationally about it.

Quote:Well, the difference I saw... I don't know many people, but obviously I spent almost 20 years in all kinds of schools. (and more to go, I hope) And what I noticed, girls "always" do their homework, in top quality too, but "never" anything on top of that. While guys often don't do their homework, but often it's something that interests them and so it's a bigger project than expected.
The problem with what you are saying is that you assume that, because you've made certain observations about women, that it must be true for all humans with a vagina. You also don't seem to be considering the "nurture" argument at all.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Delu...ZtdAx83yMC
You are making a lot of generalizations, and seem to see humans as what genitals they have, rather than seeing them as individuals. What you see in schools also depends on what kinds of schools, who you're around (for example, in middle/high school, I was in "gifted" classes and I imagine the students behaved differently than those in general population), what you're studying, etc. I mean, I went to college for ten years and I can't generalize on how ALL males did their homework. Your experience is not necessary indicative of the entire human population.

Quote:I might be a little projecting on guys here. But at the community college we had a girl in class who was a treasure, she had all her notes in perfect order and shared them on e-mail, half of class graduated thanks to her. But I've never seen her say anything intellectual, original or personally meaningful.
Personally, I'd hardly call someone a "treasure" who never said a meaningful thing in her life. Also, anecdotal. And this is only one person. The difference here, is I would see her as an individual human being, not a representive of all women, and I would not assume her lack of original thought was related to her sex.
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19-05-2013, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2013 08:21 PM by Dom.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 05:24 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(19-05-2013 03:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  There have also been studies about things like problem solving that say the opposite of what you said, and ones that seem to show that women are conditioned to think they are worse in math and problem solving, and do remarkably worse on tests when first told there is a large gender gap in the scores. When men or women are told their sex does poorly in a thing, they tend to do poorly in that thing, and vice versa.
The truth is, before the invention of computers, women worked solving equations in big halls because it turned out they make fewer errors than men. However, I haven't seen many female mathematicians, inventing new solutions to mathematical problems. The difference is not explainable by social conditioning alone.

You will in the future. For instance, my mom was offered a stipend to go to the University of Munich because she was a brilliant mathematician. However, grandpa forbade it, he needed her to work the fields with the rest of the family.

This is a new era, where women are able to get the schooling and are not (in most cases) condemned to be first working for their dads and then to be housewives. Now women have choices. My mom never got over being denied the opportunity that was normal for boys.

It wasn't normal yet in my generation, I was reprimanded a lot for spending all my time reading instead of going to secretary school or taking cooking lessons or sewing or just preening and preparing for a rich husband.

Mom would quietly encourage me to use my brain, and dad viewed me as an exception and also encouraged me. They both knew I could learn anything I put my mind to. And so I developed differently from the other girls, I was fascinated with business. I think that's because dad would take me to conferences and business meetings when I was 3 to 6 years old, before I went to school. I'd march in there with a tiny briefcase and a bunch of old mail in it, lol. After meetings, dad always asked me what I thought happened, and I told him. Sometimes he would explain something then, and sometimes he'd nod slowly. I think I caught a lot of what went on a human basis, like who was nervous and who was joyful etc. since I didn't grasp a lot of the business they talked about (Engineering).

So, in my generation I am unusual. But now I see more and more young women take advantage of the doors we opened not too long ago.

What the heck did you think women's lib was all about?

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20-05-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(19-05-2013 07:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  You will in the future. For instance, my mom was offered a stipend to go to the University of Munich because she was a brilliant mathematician. However, grandpa forbade it, he needed her to work the fields with the rest of the family.
Holy crap! That's terrible. And both my parents were college material, yet mom had to work in the field too (then in paper mill) when she was young, and dad started as a lumberjack and industrial laborer. Both have graduation exams, at least. But I'm precisely from a poor stupid country where people work their fields, I know what you mean. I had to and still have to exert lots and lots of effort so the nowhere land doesn't drag me back into the fields.

(19-05-2013 07:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  The problem with what you are saying is that you assume that, because you've made certain observations about women, that it must be true for all humans with a vagina. You also don't seem to be considering the "nurture" argument at all.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Delu...ZtdAx83yMC
You are making a lot of generalizations, and seem to see humans as what genitals they have, rather than seeing them as individuals. What you see in schools also depends on what kinds of schools, who you're around (for example, in middle/high school, I was in "gifted" classes and I imagine the students behaved differently than those in general population), what you're studying, etc. I mean, I went to college for ten years and I can't generalize on how ALL males did their homework. Your experience is not necessary indicative of the entire human population.

Well, I realize how limited my observations are, so I don't insist on them. But I need some new theory to explain my observations, before I replace the old one.
Maybe, just maybe the lack of interest in intellect is a universal human vice and I only see it as a problem in women. Because obviously, I don't intend to date men. I intend to spend many years with a woman and she better be a fellow thinker.
Another theory is, that nobody gets born using their head and so there are no such girls - if I want one, I have to educate her into it, as I educated myself. Which complicates the whole dating process even more.

(19-05-2013 05:43 PM)amyb Wrote:  Personally, I'd hardly call someone a "treasure" who never said a meaningful thing in her life. Also, anecdotal. And this is only one person. The difference here, is I would see her as an individual human being, not a representive of all women, and I would not assume her lack of original thought was related to her sex.
You're taking it personally. Like me, you probably have an intellectual pride and that's a sensitive thing. I don't know, all I have are a few preliminary guesses.
But yes, the girl was a treasure and will be for a future employer. She had also a great hobby, the amateur theater at local high school. But it was obvious that intellect was just a tool for work to her. She never used it on anything else than work. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just me having special needs. The Gen. Left Hemisphere says if he doesn't have fun, nobody has fun under his totalitarian regime.
It's girls who have better school grades, because they stick to the rules, they obey and cram what is necessary. But I don't see them analyzing problems or pursuing their own theories and that worries me, or rather it worries Gen. Left Hemisphere that he doesn't get what he wants.
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20-05-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(20-05-2013 05:45 AM)Luminon Wrote:  But I need some new theory to explain my observations, before I replace the old one.
..........
Another theory is, that nobody gets born using their head and so there are no such girls - if I want one, I have to educate her into it, as I educated myself. Which complicates the whole dating process even more.

Whoa, whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need a new theory to explain things before you replace the old one? How wrong is that? If the old theory is wrong, you toss it asap! You don't run around clinging to it. You mark the file "Needs further study" and put it aside!

As far as the second comment goes - personally, I wouldn't give you the time of day with such an attitude. Firstly, not everyone is going to think like you do, and from what I have read, actually very few people will. Secondly, that is the worst, very worst way to go into a relationship. You don't go in trying to change a person! You respect them the way they are and enjoy their company, or you don't. Changing people doesn't work. It sounds to me like YOU are the one who needs a lot of work, not the ladies.

Relationships are about MUTUAL support. You respect the differences. You appreciate a different view. You even support differences you don't approve of - you are supposed to be a team. If you can't further EACH OTHER'S needs and wants, you won't make a good team and now we see why most marriages fail these days. In a good match, you are not cookie cutter images of each other, but you complete each other.

So you haven't met anyone you "click " with. That makes you consider the majority of the world's population inferior and in need of your guidance? Are you ever setting yourself up for failure!

Re. hormones: We are all animals and we are greatly influenced by chemical and hormonal balances. Sometimes the brain overrides them, and sometimes it cannot. We are still driven by what evolution has made us - creatures who are driven by the need to procreate and self preserve. Whether it applies anymore or not is irrelevant, we are hard wired that way. Everything alive is hard wired that way. And these instincts take over when indicated. The particular chemistry you happen to be endowed with determines a LOT of your behavior, whether you like it or not. Your chemical balance is as unique as your finger print. By generalizing the way you did above, you are making sure that you will not succeed in finding a mate. So why are you encapsulating yourself that way? Prejudice, any kind of prejudice, separates you from the targeted segment of the population. You can simply discount them and that solves the issue of having to deal with anything about them. So you are in need of some 'soul searching". Just what are you afraid of?

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20-05-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(20-05-2013 06:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  Whoa, whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need a new theory to explain things before you replace the old one? How wrong is that? If the old theory is wrong, you toss it asap! You don't run around clinging to it. You mark the file "Needs further study" and put it aside!
It's actually from Bundestag, the German parliament. You can't overthrow the old government unless you already have a list who will be in the new government. It's good for stability of the state.
Sorry, I said it wrong, I meant more like a hypothesis to test.
If I had no hypothesis, I'd have no idea what to do. If I didn't have social hypotheses to test, I'd stay at home and do nothing. So even a wrong hypothesis is better than none. So as long as it's just something unknown that I can think of and test it as I go along, I keep it and only replace it only with something better.

When a hypothesis turns out to be a fact (or a fact that it is not true) then obviously there is nothing for me to do with it. I file it to my memory for future use (in case someone makes the same mistake) and focus on some other problems. Obviously, I'm better at theory than at practice, so don't worry, I'd probably be a lousy racist and misogynist anyway Big Grin


(20-05-2013 06:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  As far as the second comment goes - personally, I wouldn't give you the time of day with such an attitude. Firstly, not everyone is going to think like you do, and from what I have read, actually very few people will. Secondly, that is the worst, very worst way to go into a relationship. You don't go in trying to change a person! You respect them the way they are and enjoy their company, or you don't. Changing people doesn't work. It sounds to me like YOU are the one who needs a lot of work, not the ladies.
Yes, I do a lot of work and I'd say I'm about halfway to becoming a decent person. The problem is, this is not something we want people to know about, unless we're in a very advanced and intimate stage of relationship. All the stages before it sounds like I'm some kind of psycho. I know what not to do, but I don't know what to actually do.

As for respecting people, I don't read people well, so I don't know if I should respect or disrespect them. I respect people by default, but that does not equal socializing. To socialize I'd have to know what the people are thinking and feeling, which is not easily readable to me. My senses are lying to me, they say they see there is nothing, when they are really blind. The surroundings interpret this as arrogance and aloofness.

(20-05-2013 06:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  Relationships are about MUTUAL support. You respect the differences. You appreciate a different view. You even support differences you don't approve of - you are supposed to be a team. If you can't further EACH OTHER'S needs and wants, you won't make a good team and now we see why most marriages fail these days. In a good match, you are not cookie cutter images of each other, but you complete each other.
Hey, I really like supporting people. It used to be a family business and I caught some skills as I went along. I just had girls hit on me who rather needed the support of a dietologist, plastic surgeon and a psychiatrist and I don't deal in these departments. Neither did they deal in my department.

I actually like differences and disagreements, it spices up the life. The ideas that people carry in their heads are as attractive to me as the people themselves.

(20-05-2013 06:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  So you haven't met anyone you "click " with. That makes you consider the majority of the world's population inferior and in need of your guidance? Are you ever setting yourself up for failure!
Well, I'm not setting myself up for failure, I was born for social failure and I know that. I'm not sure why I give that impression of superiority complex, but it's one of problems I need to work out. I can't have women freaking out on me like you do right now, can I? Big Grin (and you're not the first one) There really are areas where I can offer much guidance. In other areas, specially relationship and social, I need the guidance.

I saw people here having lots of emotional baggage when it comes to intellect. I can understand. I admit when I'm wrong, but it really pushes my buttons when someone is underestimating me.
Intellect is misunderstood in the society of today. It is seen as good and useful and a reason for pride. People feel inferior or they assume others are showing off. For me, it is simply a way of living, a way of having fun, working, all in one. I have all my eggs of consciousness in one cerebral basket, a very focused, unbalanced personality. Doesn't sound exactly useful, right? The truth is, social world needs emotional intelligence. You are very intelligent in that sense, just like most people.

(20-05-2013 06:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  Re. hormones: We are all animals and we are greatly influenced by chemical and hormonal balances. Sometimes the brain overrides them, and sometimes it cannot. We are still driven by what evolution has made us - creatures who are driven by the need to procreate and self preserve. Whether it applies anymore or not is irrelevant, we are hard wired that way. Everything alive is hard wired that way. And these instincts take over when indicated. The particular chemistry you happen to be endowed with determines a LOT of your behavior, whether you like it or not. Your chemical balance is as unique as your finger print. By generalizing the way you did above, you are making sure that you will not succeed in finding a mate. So why are you encapsulating yourself that way? Prejudice, any kind of prejudice, separates you from the targeted segment of the population. You can simply discount them and that solves the issue of having to deal with anything about them. So you are in need of some 'soul searching". Just what are you afraid of?
I am afraid of stagnation, failure in life and living alone forever. That is a very real danger. I am encapsulating myself, because I need a structured life that I understand, because I created that structure. There are white areas on my map, and what do you do with white areas? You draw straight lines all over them as a grid. This is not how the place really looks like, but it's immensely helpful when drawing them in later on.
In my situation prejudice (and carefulness because I know it is a prejudice) is better than absolutely no idea and no activities at all. As for 'soul searching', that's what I do for the last 5 years or so.
For me feminism and chauvinism are the vertical and horizontal lines on map, imaginary extremes for orientation, now what's in the squares between them?
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20-05-2013, 05:07 PM
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
Quote:To socialize I'd have to know what the people are thinking and feeling, which is not easily readable to me.
If you want to know what a person is feeling, you can ask that person.
Quote: I'm not sure why I give that impression of superiority complex, but it's one of problems I need to work out
You give that impression because you said, more or less, that women are incapable of intelligent thought, and if you were to be in a relationship, it would only work if you could mold them into clones of yourself.
Quote:I am afraid of stagnation, failure in life and living alone forever.
The only way for a relationship to work is through compromise from both sides.
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20-05-2013, 06:01 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2013 06:25 PM by Luminon.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(20-05-2013 05:07 PM)amyb Wrote:  If you want to know what a person is feeling, you can ask that person.
I can't. Normal people can take in the info about people's feelings lightning-fast, from many people at once and react to it at the same time. This is what their interaction is geared to. It's not a rocket science they talk about, but it's a light speed fast synchronous concert of emotions and reactions. Asking people is not an option.

People can recognize others in a fraction of second. It takes me much longer. I realized that so many strangers greet me at school because I look at them a fraction of second too long. What it takes me just to tell if I know that person or not, they think I look at them because I know them and they greet me preventively. Creepy. So I learned just to check people with the quickest of glances, just to check if they're someone familiar, not really seeing how they look like. I suspect I have a mild form of face blindness, for me remembering faces and names is like remembering car masks and license plates. Possible, but diffcult and unreliable.

(20-05-2013 05:07 PM)amyb Wrote:  You give that impression because you said, more or less, that women are incapable of intelligent thought, and if you were to be in a relationship, it would only work if you could mold them into clones of yourself.
Oh, I see so many things you think I said but I didn't. That's another problem, I can't have people filling in the blanks as they see fit. It happened to me many times, most notably on an intern job in France and my boss made up unbelievable stories behind my back about what I think about her and everything, just from a withdrawn look on my face when patiently waiting. I don't know how do I look when I'm withdrawn, but apparently if Buddha had such a face when he meditated, enraged villagers would cast him away from under the fig tree, because he looks just too damn smug and thinking too highly of himself and surely thinks how stupid and materialistic the lowly peasants are.

That's your instinct talking here, your detector of arrogant jerks with normal, healthy brains. Instinct tells you that everyone knows the social context and those who act outside of it do it intentionally, because they are jerks. Your instinct does not tell you that a brain disorder can disrupt the perception of social context.
I'm not arrogant, I'm, socially blind. That's like accusing a bllind person that he doesn't comment on your clothes because he thinks they're ugly.
And I don't see how smart, funny and interesting people are, unless they say out loud something that is literally, formally meaningful that gives me the hint. Most of what people exchange in real life is not a language, it's a torrent of informal, half non-verbal hints at shared previous experiences, shared context. Transcribed into literal text it would make no sense at all to an uninvolved reader. Some call the social blindness also a context blindness.
That's why I like forums and books, people usually write the context explicitly into the headers and write full sentences.

(20-05-2013 05:07 PM)amyb Wrote:  The only way for a relationship to work is through compromise from both sides.
Sure. I'll be glad to make a compromise when I know when to make one and what to make it about. I'll know when I know the context. The problem is finding out the right context at the right time.
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20-05-2013, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2013 06:34 PM by amyb.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
Quote:Oh, I see so many things you think I said but I didn't.
I could go back and quote you, if you like. I realize that you said these are only your observations, but mentioning them as you did seems to suggest you think they prove something.

Luminon Wrote:However, I haven't seen many female mathematicians, inventing new solutions to mathematical problems. The difference is not explainable by social conditioning alone.
Here, you are suggesting that women must be incapable of math, because you haven't seen many female mathematicians. Correlation =/= causation. You see to be ignoring social factors completely here.

Luminon Wrote:And what I noticed, girls "always" do their homework, in top quality too, but "never" anything on top of that.
Here, you are suggesting that women never put forth any extra effort.

Luminon Wrote:Another theory is, that nobody gets born using their head and so there are no such girls - if I want one, I have to educate her into it, as I educated myself. Which complicates the whole dating process even more.
Here, you seem to be saying no girl lives up to your standards, so you'd have to make her more like you in order for you to accept her. Or at least that nobody "uses their head,' and then you're assuming a woman is incapable of educating herself; that you would need to do it.

.
Luminon Wrote:I just had girls hit on me who rather needed the support of a dietologist, plastic surgeon and a psychiatrist and I don't deal in these departments.
I'm assuming you must be a male model, since you dismiss anyone imperfect physically. So you expect a potential mate to think exactly like you and to look like a supermodel. I have no idea what you look like, but there have been studies that show that people tend to pair up with people of fairly similar attractiveness. If you're a 10, then it's no big deal. But most people are not.

Quote:I can't have women freaking out on me like you do right now, can I?
I don't think Dom was freaking out so much as pointing out why some of the things you've said would be enough to turn off most women.

Quote:As for emotionality and intellect in actual women......From what I've seen, many guys enjoy using their brains, but I regret to say, save for one or two exceptions I've never had an interesting discussion with a girl of my age. There
^ Compare to a sentence starting with "I'm not racist, but..."

Quote:If women want to succeed in capitalism, they must be more men than actual men.
I get what you're going at, but I'm including this quote any way.

Quote:That's your instinct talking here, your detector of arrogant jerks with normal, healthy brains.
I take offense to you assuming I have a "normal, healthy brain." [/sarcasm] I have SPD and completely avoid social interaction, and, quoting from the wiki, and only able "to form relationships with others based on intellectual, physical, familial, occupational, or recreational activities."

Quote:Asking people is not an option.
I do not agree. If you don't know how someone is feeling, you can ask. If that person already knows you, then they probably know about your difficulties in this area and shouldn't have a problem with it. Sure, it's not possible for every social interaction, and that's why I'd say to leave it for the times you actually care what a person is feeling.

Quote:Only when drunk I get to feel the social and spontaneous impulses that the General usually censores. And the freedom is unbelievable. It's like getting a family letter in jail after 5 years. Too bad the General doesn't like me drinking either.

There is your answer: become an alcoholic. No, not really.
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21-05-2013, 05:02 AM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2013 07:02 AM by Luminon.)
RE: The Lucid Spiritual Plane
(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  I could go back and quote you, if you like. I realize that you said these are only your observations, but mentioning them as you did seems to suggest you think they prove something.
Yes, I am trying to prove how bad and unreliable my observation is. My own brain is lying to me and censoring my senses, that's the point.

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  Here, you are suggesting that women must be incapable of math, because you haven't seen many female mathematicians. Correlation =/= causation. You see to be ignoring social factors completely here.
That's because my neurology is inferior at noticing social factors, that's the point. Furthermore, the study I linked says the difference is not explainable by social conditioning alone. It's a scientific study so it's OK to say whatever it says. Academic freedom.

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  Here, you are suggesting that women never put forth any extra effort.
Not never, I said "never". ( somebody had just this in their signature around here Tongue ) And how would you define an extra effort? Just as well you might say women are good at managing their efforts economically to finish a given task even if it doesn't interest them, while guys squander their strength and do things in excess.

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  Here, you seem to be saying no girl lives up to your standards, so you'd have to make her more like you in order for you to accept her. Or at least that nobody "uses their head,' and then you're assuming a woman is incapable of educating herself; that you would need to do it.
I said nobody gets born up to my standards... (therefore not even me, the gender wasn't implied in there) Whatever. The best advice I got so far was, if you can't find one, educate one.

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm assuming you must be a male model, since you dismiss anyone imperfect physically. So you expect a potential mate to think exactly like you and to look like a supermodel. I have no idea what you look like, but there have been studies that show that people tend to pair up with people of fairly similar attractiveness. If you're a 10, then it's no big deal. But most people are not.
No, I'm just a guy and you're exaggerating. Thanks for an example how people exaggerate, project and misinterpret, it's their first instinct. Like it or not, romantic affairs are genetically sexist and we are allowed to make a choice and to discriminate, men are visual creatures. "You aren't perfect either", that's an argument for tolerance, not for dating.
I wouldn't say I have even remotely unrealistic demands on female looks and I my looks are quite average. But I wouldn't say I'm desperate either, not for looks certainly. I know appearance is worthless if it's not supported by the ability to give me social framework that doesn't require hints to shared past social life. One such framework is intellectual.

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  I don't think Dom was freaking out so much as pointing out why some of the things you've said would be enough to turn off most women.
Yes, that's why I'm not saying them IRL. I'm not saying anything about other people pretty much. I have no idea what to say. I'm blind to the social framework, to context, to what people mean when they say something else. Of course I have lots of experience on what they mean, but it's not useful quickly enough in real time when following a conversation.

Quote:
Quote:As for emotionality and intellect in actual women......From what I've seen, many guys enjoy using their brains, but I regret to say, save for one or two exceptions I've never had an interesting discussion with a girl of my age. There
^ Compare to a sentence starting with "I'm not racist, but..."
Don't worry, I'm not social enough to be a racist. Racism takes lots of emotions and experience. So do all the good and bad biases. That's what it takes to have a social framework.

Quote:
Quote:That's your instinct talking here, your detector of arrogant jerks with normal, healthy brains.
I take offense to you assuming I have a "normal, healthy brain." [/sarcasm] I have SPD and completely avoid social interaction, and, quoting from the wiki, and only able "to form relationships with others based on intellectual, physical, familial, occupational, or recreational activities."
Oh, I'm sorry. Welcome to the club. I don't know what to say. Maybe... the point still stands, if you can recognize jerks, you seem doing it just fine right now.

Wait! That wasn't even what I was saying! I said the arrogant jerks have normal, healthy brains, not you. (so they're responsible for how they behave)
I know, I'm not being polite again Frusty

(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  I do not agree. If you don't know how someone is feeling, you can ask. If that person already knows you, then they probably know about your difficulties in this area and shouldn't have a problem with it. Sure, it's not possible for every social interaction, and that's why I'd say to leave it for the times you actually care what a person is feeling.
Well, I don't get that close to people. I'd need a reason for that, a social framework. People who get close to others without a social framework are creeps and psychos.
For example, if I was a divorce lawyer (or a confessioner), that would be very comfortable, because all my clients would come to me for a very obvious reason and I'd know exactly how they feel, because there is just one way to feel when you go to a divorce lawyer.

Here's something for you, to illustrate a point. This one's a turn on Tongue (and rather challenging)




(20-05-2013 06:31 PM)amyb Wrote:  There is your answer: become an alcoholic. No, not really.
I can't, I only drink when there is a social framework for that. (someone's throwing a party) Without social framework I don't know what to drink, when, why, and who's paying for it.
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